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Japan facing credit card number shortage

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Re: Japan facing credit card number shortage

#331

Post by Tijdreiziger »

nottorp wrote: post #251
mcv wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The prevalence of credit cards has baffled me for decades now. I admit I have one, but the only thing I need it for is to buy things from webshops that don't cater to the Dutch market. Every webshop that's vaguely aware of the Dutch market supports iDeal, which is specifically designed to handle internet payment and doesn't involve sharing any sensitive information with merchants or other unknown parties; my bank han…

That's nice... as long as you only buy stuff from your country.

I'm of the opinion that the EU should work to make all these national payment systems cross-compatible. They've already done it for regular money transfers (SEPA). They've already done it for government identification (eIDAS). Now it's time to put an end to the national insularity of online payment systems (NL: iDEAL, BE: Bancontact, DE: SOFORT, SE: Swish, PL: Przelewy24, ...)

Re: Japan facing credit card number shortage

#332

Post by GoblinSlayer »

michannne wrote: post #102
joshfraser wrote: post #96

What's crazy is that we've had public key encryption for over 40 years, and we're still publishing magic numbers on little pieces of plastic that give whoever sees them the power to take all our money without our consent.

How would encryption improve the security of a physical credit card?

With public key cryptography you don't need the weak card number at all, it becomes just a historic baggage like the magnetic strip.

Re: Japan facing credit card number shortage

#333

Post by dwild »

iso1210 wrote: post #270
mrjin wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Card numbers are there for a reason: transactions without presenting the card, which actually are not a big problem as there are strict rules to follow and if frauds do occur, card holders are backed by charge-back policies. I guess all your concerns should really go to magnetic strip cards as there is virtually no way to tell fake card from genuine cards and that's the reason of EMV/PBOC card migration which just as…

There's far better ways to do it if you can use online - I submit my card number to them, they pass the card number, their account number, and the amount to my provider, I authorise they payment with my provider. If you're doing it over the phone though things like public key won't really work - to be long enough would make the numbers impossible to read out reliably, let alone the calculation I would need to do with…

> There's far better ways to do it if you can use online - I submit my card number to them, they pass the card number, their account number, and the amount to my provider, I authorise they payment with my provider.

Visa does support this scheme and I hate it when it happens. I try to use my bank password the less possible. I also believe it's a huge phishing risk as people don't look at the URL.

I personally prefer that the bank assume the current risk. It's not like it's making them bankrupt to do it right now...

Re: Japan facing credit card number shortage

#334

Post by PascLeRasc »

me_me_me wrote: post #258
joshfraser wrote: post #96

What's crazy is that we've had public key encryption for over 40 years, and we're still publishing magic numbers on little pieces of plastic that give whoever sees them the power to take all our money without our consent.

> What's crazy is that we've had C and other higher level languages for over 40 years, and we're still maintaining banking and industry backends in Cobol or other old tech. The thing is something that works, and works well is hard to displace. Especially when it makes money. And when you are running a business and you have to choose: - keep making money - update system that is making money and hope it will work and i…

Passphrases for credit card numbers, maybe? It'd be easier to remember "bobcat reissue onscreen crook" than a series of 15-16 numbers and you'd have essentially unlimited versions.

Re: Japan facing credit card number shortage

#335

Post by xxpor »

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #301
xxpor wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US retailers don't want to lose customer tracking they can do with fixed card numbers. This is why you see nonsense like "Kroger Pay" and other store specific payment apps. The hardware exists in nearly every terminal that supports EMV (Chip and pin/signature), the retailers just haven't turned it on. Meanwhile, with my Samsung phone and its mag strip emulation, I can use my phone nearly everywhere anyway even…

Tracking is traditionally done with discount cards, and they are compatible with all payment methods. And there are applications that aggregate those discount cards in software: a discount card is just a short ID, nothing fancy.

That's true in grocery stores but not other retailers.

Re: Japan facing credit card number shortage

#336

Post by PascLeRasc »

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #327
franga2000 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hell yeah! Now we just need to get banks to stop using SMS 2FA and embrace an open 2FA standard like TOTP and our money (!!) will finally be almost as secure as our Facebook accounts have been for 5 years...

My bank once gave me a one time pad :)

Was it Symantec? You can import that into Authy/Google Authenticator/1Password if you want. It's good at least for backup.

https://github.com/dlenski/python-vipaccess

Re: Japan facing credit card number shortage

#337

Post by seized »

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #217
boomlinde wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Try giving a user a private key for making CNP transactions, I have that! > and all you will have achieved is replicating the user experience of bitcoin. I've never used bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency. What's the user experience like?

You just have the target wallet address and the "send" button, zero bullshit, like paper money.

Except for drawing the rest of the owl... Getting a wallet, the knowledge of keeping it secure, transferring real money to crypto, knowing which crypto system to choose/use.... There's a lot of layers of "bullshit" before you get to "Just hit send".

Re: Japan facing credit card number shortage

#338

Post by AnssiH »

lmm wrote: post #297
kwhitefoot wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what direct debits (Avtalegiro in Norwegian) are for. Works fine here. I only use my credit cards for buying things in shops or one off things online. And my credit card gets paid by direct debit.

Direct debits have all of the dangers of credit cards and then some - you have to give out a numeric identifier, and unlike a credit card that number allows pulling directly from your bank account.

"Direct debit" can mean multiple different systems. In this case the Norwegian system the parent talked about sounds similar to the Finnish Finvoice system that can be used to (auto-)pay practically all bills in Finland - the system is known to users as "e-invoicing" (e-lasku) or, if used offline, as "direct payment" (suoramaksu).

The customer manually creates the billing agreement with a specific invoicer at the customer's online bank, and can set payment limits, notifications, and either automatic or manual approvals.

These are distinct from the "SEPA direct debit", which is not used in Finland domestically. Due to their rarity I think "SEPA direct debit" payments are usually/often disabled or each payment requires a specific customer authorization via their online bank (so IBAN of such an account cannot be used to get money out of the account).

Re: Japan facing credit card number shortage

#339

Post by emiliobumachar »

xlii wrote: post #289
labster wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don’t we teach schoolchildren the NATO phonetic alphabet? Seems like it wouldn’t take that long, and it would be a useful skill for their whole life.

In English speaking countries, sure - why not. But it'd take at least 3 generation to use in non-english speaking country since in different languages same letters might be pronounced vastly different. Then you have immigrants and foreigners who might now know this alphabet so clerks would still be able to recognize ad-hoc and NATO alphabet. In the end, it would extend requirements while not providing universal benef…

Brazilian here. There is an equivalent alphabet in Portuguese, with different words for each letter, better adapted to the Portuguese language. It's ubiquitous in the Brazilian armed services.

Phone service is always in a specific language, I don't see why the use of such alphabets would be harder in non-English-speaking countries than in English-speaking ones.

Re: Japan facing credit card number shortage

#340

Post by ttymck »

galoisgirl wrote: post #234
warkdarrior wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2^59 numbers not enough for you? That's 2^25 card numbers per person in the world (assuming 2^34 persons).

So how do you explain the shortage with 2^15 numbers per person?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24277902
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