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How the Sacklers shifted $10.8B of an opioid fortune built on OxyContin

bloomberg.com

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Re: How the Sacklers shifted $10.8B of an opioid fortune built on OxyContin

#101

Post by murbard2 »

shrubble wrote: post #9
wombatmobile wrote: post #2

If we had a justice system, that $10.8 billion would be recoverable, and used to try to rehabilitate the victims. But we don't have a justice system. We have a legal system, and a financial system.

When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it. Frédéric Bastiat

Bastiat is specifically referring to rent seeking, occupational licensing, protectionism, etc.

The Bastiat quote is on point if your criticism of Purdue Pharma is that it profited from the medical licensing laws and drug prohibition laws that unfairly proscribes teenagers from buying madak cigarettes on the free market.

If the criticism is merely that they made money selling addictive drugs, this really isn't what the quote is about.

Re: How the Sacklers shifted $10.8B of an opioid fortune built on OxyContin

#103

Post by bluntfang »

cooljacob204 wrote: post #94
ryandrake wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus, we Americans embrace or at least excuse this corporate power. Elected government tries to control what we can say online? Censorship! Overreach! Unaccountable Facebook and Twitter try to control what we say online? Yes, please! No problem! If you don't like it, leave! It's not censorship because corporate power is doing it rather than government power!

While I somewhat agree with the sentiment, there is a big difference between our government which has the power to take away our rights and a corporation censoring us.

Is there a big difference though? Especially considering we got Zucked into believing that TikTok needs to be banned/sold to an American company?

Re: How the Sacklers shifted $10.8B of an opioid fortune built on OxyContin

#105

Post by anm89 »

wombatmobile wrote: post #2

If we had a justice system, that $10.8 billion would be recoverable, and used to try to rehabilitate the victims. But we don't have a justice system. We have a legal system, and a financial system.

And what would a justice system look like, not in terms of vague sentiments or specific outcomes but in terms of process.

Justice is inherently subjective. A "justice system" to you is a facist dictatorship as implemented because it inherently relies on all justice coming from the subjective opinions of a single person, you.

Re: How the Sacklers shifted $10.8B of an opioid fortune built on OxyContin

#106

Post by anm89 »

cultus wrote: post #32
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we had a justice system, that $10.8 billion would be recoverable We’re in the midst of a series of lawsuits and criminal probes seeking to do exactly that. When public pressure rushes prosecutors, we get nonsense like Arizona getting rejected for original jurisdiction by SCOTUS. We have due process. Not mob rule.

Much of the money is diffucult to recover by being tied up in byzantine arrangements of LLCs and overseas accounts. That's generally how the rich avoid paying taxes as well. We have due process for the privileged. Tell all of the poor defendants who have been held in Rikers for over a year without a trial that they have due process.

Ok so maybe improve the laws instead of burning down the entire legal system? I mean even if you want to burn down the entire legal system you are never going to get that without a very bloody revolution.

Re: How the Sacklers shifted $10.8B of an opioid fortune built on OxyContin

#107

Post by programbreeding »

downrightmike wrote: post #97
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #23

TL; DR The Sacklers extracted about $6.1bn after taxes but before capital gains or losses and propose to pay $3bn in their settlement. To my knowledge, none of them have been arrested yet, though the wheels of criminal justice turn slower than those of civil law.

This would be a awesome time for Cops tv show to go get them.

I know you're making a joke but FYI, Cops was just canceled after 31 years due to all the recent police protests.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/09/business/media/cops-cance...

Re: How the Sacklers shifted $10.8B of an opioid fortune built on OxyContin

#108

Post by bagacrap »

songshu wrote: post #13

I never understand why doctors are not blamed for prescribing these. Are doctors not supposed to be responsible for prescriptions? If they are not, should we stop allowing them to prescribe? Why don’t doctors unions throw out members who would claim to have been hoodwinked by pharmaceutical companies?

they should be. One of my parents was a primary care physician. When I was growing up she had on-call duties once a month, and fielded lots of after-hours requests for opioid prescriptions or renewals. These were patients of other doctors at her clinic calling in. She always told them that she wouldn't prescribe those drugs over the phone and they'd need to go into urgent care because she was aware of the abuse and addictive potential. This happened in the mid 90s.

Re: How the Sacklers shifted $10.8B of an opioid fortune built on OxyContin

#109

Post by refurb »

blendergeek wrote: post #19
songshu wrote: post #13

I never understand why doctors are not blamed for prescribing these. Are doctors not supposed to be responsible for prescriptions? If they are not, should we stop allowing them to prescribe? Why don’t doctors unions throw out members who would claim to have been hoodwinked by pharmaceutical companies?

> Why don’t doctors unions throw out members who would claim to have been hoodwinked by pharmaceutical companies? If the companies are lying about safety, how are the doctors supposed to know? The only ones with the data necessary to know the dangers of these drugs are the manufacturers and the manufacturers were lying and covering up the dangers.

Lying about safety? These are opioids which have been around for more than 100 years.

And pharma companies are one of many sources of information about drugs. Doctors aren’t forced to only listen to them.

Re: How the Sacklers shifted $10.8B of an opioid fortune built on OxyContin

#110

Post by penagwin »

sunstone wrote: post #71
wombatmobile wrote: post #2

If we had a justice system, that $10.8 billion would be recoverable, and used to try to rehabilitate the victims. But we don't have a justice system. We have a legal system, and a financial system.

According to the article $4.8bn of the $10.8bn has already been paid in tax. So that portion has been 'recovered'. The remaining $6bn though is still in play. What I don't see being mentioned is jail time. So it's not criminal to push habit forming narcotics from behind a corporate curtain?

> So it's not criminal to push habit forming narcotics from behind a corporate curtain?

Basically yeah.

The "war on drugs" was pathetically laughable for reasons like this.

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