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How the Sacklers shifted $10.8B of an opioid fortune built on OxyContin

bloomberg.com

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Re: How the Sacklers shifted $10.8B of an opioid fortune built on OxyContin

#61

Post by autisticcurio »

casraso wrote: post #4
wombatmobile wrote: post #2

If we had a justice system, that $10.8 billion would be recoverable, and used to try to rehabilitate the victims. But we don't have a justice system. We have a legal system, and a financial system.

This is why I am puzzled when people say 'you should fight your battles in the courts, not through protests'. It has always been about who can afford better lawyers, who can win the war of attrition, and a whole lot of luck along the way. Quite a few articles have showed up on HN the past week that reinforce this.

If the system was honest, everyone would be taught at least the basics about law, medicine and finance, but you dont, you get taught enough to be a slave.

Re: How the Sacklers shifted $10.8B of an opioid fortune built on OxyContin

#62

Post by chongli »

songshu wrote: post #13

I never understand why doctors are not blamed for prescribing these. Are doctors not supposed to be responsible for prescriptions? If they are not, should we stop allowing them to prescribe? Why don’t doctors unions throw out members who would claim to have been hoodwinked by pharmaceutical companies?

I never understand why doctors are not blamed for prescribing these

Because doctors are human beings and in particular they’re people who are motivated by the desire to alleviate suffering. When faced with patients who repeatedly return to their office, complaining of severe pain, what can they do?

There are no miracle painkillers. We have anti-inflammatories for minor aches and pains. We have opioids for severe, temporary pain (such as recovery from surgery and end-of-life care). We do not have a painkiller suitable for chronic pain.

Purdue pharma offered doctors a way out. The institutional structure of healthcare, into which doctors and pharma companies fit, permits diffusion of responsibility [1]. Doctors escape blame because the determination of the safety and efficacy of medication is outside their area of responsibility.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility

Re: How the Sacklers shifted $10.8B of an opioid fortune built on OxyContin

#63

Post by umvi »

Murkin wrote: post #33
aronpye wrote: post #15

Paywall, didn’t read

Silliest paywall ever: 1. Open dev tools 2. Delete the overlay element (id = graphics-paywall-overlay) 3. Disable 'overflow: hidden' on body Or just run: document.getElementById("graphics-paywall-overlay").remove() document.body.style.overflow = 'inherit'

Yeah, the security on physical newspaper vending machines is laughably easy to defeat as well. Just smash the glass on the front with a rock and you can take as many papers as you want, for free. Or for a less destructive route you can use a special tubular lock pick.

Re: How the Sacklers shifted $10.8B of an opioid fortune built on OxyContin

#64

Post by metaloqui »

MRantiHATE wrote: post #55
shrubble wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it. Frédéric Bastiat

Are you referring to the fact that the Sackler family is all Jewish? Please cool it with the anti-semitism.

How did you manage to connect that to antisemitism?

Re: How the Sacklers shifted $10.8B of an opioid fortune built on OxyContin

#65

Post by mannykannot »

pradn wrote: post #27
thefounder wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Why don’t doctors unions throw out members who would claim to have been hoodwinked by pharmaceutical companies? Because of the...money? There is/was plenty for everyone.

Do doctors get paid more for prescribing one brand of medication vs another?

the pharmacutical companies have developed many ways of rewarding doctors for being compliant, such as by being paid 'consultants' presenting at conferences in exotic locations. For everyday practitioners, social primping (wining, dining, rounds of golf in prestigious locations and/or company) works as well as for just about everyone.

Re: How the Sacklers shifted $10.8B of an opioid fortune built on OxyContin

#66

Post by save_ferris »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #17
save_ferris wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sorry but this is so naive. They were billionaires yesterday and they’re going to be billionaires tomorrow. Their reputation is going to be fine because we live in a society that absolutely worships money and those who have it. People with that kind of money can pay to scrub the internet.

> People with that kind of money can pay to scrub the internet. I'm sorry but this is so naive. Maybe true if you've got a bit of money and a little bit of notoriety, but I don't think that it would be possible to dissociate the Sacklers' name from the opioid crisis anytime soon.

I think you vastly overestimate the attention span of the public on this. If you asked 100 random people on the street who was behind the opioid crisis, I’d be shocked if 10 knew. You also don’t acknowledge how easy it is for the wealthy to hide their money via intermediary organizations and shell companies. It’s not like they absolutely have to donate using the Sackler name.

Re: How the Sacklers shifted $10.8B of an opioid fortune built on OxyContin

#67

Post by vmchale »

mmrezaie wrote: post #7

I am not american and I remember hearing about OxyCotin for more around 10 years. So I wonder why controling this problem which casued so many loses of lifes (not necessary deaths), took this long to be the target of the government. I also wonder was there one of these stupid political shows that US is used to them now that was stopping anyone to handle it. In the long legal battle I do not think this money is going…

> I wonder why controling this problem which casued so many loses of lifes (not necessary deaths), took this long to be the target of the government.

Lots of shit falling apart here...

Re: How the Sacklers shifted $10.8B of an opioid fortune built on OxyContin

#68

Post by umvi »

wombatmobile wrote: post #2

If we had a justice system, that $10.8 billion would be recoverable, and used to try to rehabilitate the victims. But we don't have a justice system. We have a legal system, and a financial system.

Surely 100% of opiod usage isn't bad? So 100% of the $10.8B isn't blood money? I'm sure some % of the opioids really helped people. For example, my grandpa has extremely painful back pain, and opioids were a godsend. Yeah, he got addicted, but he's in his 90s anyway, so at least he can live the rest of his life without dealing with crippling back pain.

Re: How the Sacklers shifted $10.8B of an opioid fortune built on OxyContin

#69

Post by at_a_remove »

blendergeek wrote: post #19
songshu wrote: post #13

I never understand why doctors are not blamed for prescribing these. Are doctors not supposed to be responsible for prescriptions? If they are not, should we stop allowing them to prescribe? Why don’t doctors unions throw out members who would claim to have been hoodwinked by pharmaceutical companies?

> Why don’t doctors unions throw out members who would claim to have been hoodwinked by pharmaceutical companies? If the companies are lying about safety, how are the doctors supposed to know? The only ones with the data necessary to know the dangers of these drugs are the manufacturers and the manufacturers were lying and covering up the dangers.

I think a casual understanding of history has numerous examples of opioids that were prescribed as being safe, and that people then got addicted to, and then we all moved on to the next one. Heroin was one, after all. I find it hard to imagine too many doctors who are unaware of the history. How they have chosen to view that history (psychiatry's triumphant "this time we got it right!" or perhaps simply shrinking away from the issue) is what informs their decisions.

Is it an opioid? Then it is probably addictive for some people.

I know that there is some experimentation involving kappa opioid receptors, trying to essentially neutralize any euphoria or uplift with the k-receptor's dysphoria "bummer," but until that has been ironed out, they're habit-forming for many. Not all, but many.

Re: How the Sacklers shifted $10.8B of an opioid fortune built on OxyContin

#70

Post by Zaak »

pradn wrote: post #27
thefounder wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Why don’t doctors unions throw out members who would claim to have been hoodwinked by pharmaceutical companies? Because of the...money? There is/was plenty for everyone.

Do doctors get paid more for prescribing one brand of medication vs another?

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/is-your-doctor-gettin...
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