Earlier quoted context omitted.
As far as I am aware Steam does not need administrator privileges to install third-party games. I am not sure about Epic Game Store.
Shouldn’t that be possible on Android too then?
If Google would permit it, it would.
Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
581–590 of 639 posts
Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
#582Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the Court doubts that an expert would suggest a zero percent alternative It's unfortunate that the percentage cut ends up overshadowing the real antitrust issue, which is that Apple (and Google) essentially has the power to make or break any arbitrary business that relies on their platform. They base it on vague and loosely enforced rules, which means companies never know if tomorrow is the end. Having a locked pla…
Nobody is forcing Epic to use Apple's platform though. It never used to be the case, that every device you own must be able to play every game you want. You can already play Fortnite on your PC. Apple cannot stop you from owning a PC, so Apple cannot stop you from playing Fortnite. Yes, Apple is a gatekeeper for its platform. But we've known this forever. Sony is a gatekeeper for the playstation, and Microsoft is a g…
Why doesn't Windows take 30% whenever you try to play a game there?
I don't know about legality, but philosophically it's offensive to me that Apple and Google get to be landlords leeching off app developers. I paid for my phone. It should run the software I want it to, and if I want to buy an app for it I shouldn't need to pay Apple for the privilege.
Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
#583Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You don’t buy an iPhone expecting to install whatever you want. I specifically bought an iPhone to facetime my family from another country. I'd love to be able to have my apps from my old android. Or, use facetime from an android... But yeah, I'd love to install whatever I want and that's what I'd expect instead of having to buy everything twice when I switched OSes.
There are plenty of competitors to Facetime, available across multiple different platforms. Google and Facebook for example enjoy pushing their messaging and video messaging ecosystems across multiple devices. There's nothing unique about Facetime, except it's Apple exclusive.
Yeah, the issue is that we're talking about my parents here. I'm happy to use a different service (in fact, I prefer it) but my parents are old and stubborn and refuse to use a different service.
Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
#584Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nobody is forcing Epic to use Apple's platform though. It never used to be the case, that every device you own must be able to play every game you want. You can already play Fortnite on your PC. Apple cannot stop you from owning a PC, so Apple cannot stop you from playing Fortnite. Yes, Apple is a gatekeeper for its platform. But we've known this forever. Sony is a gatekeeper for the playstation, and Microsoft is a g…
Why doesn't Windows take 30% whenever you try to play a game there? I don't know about legality, but philosophically it's offensive to me that Apple and Google get to be landlords leeching off app developers. I paid for my phone. It should run the software I want it to, and if I want to buy an app for it I shouldn't need to pay Apple for the privilege.
I'm sure they take a cut if you use the Microsoft Store.
You know why Windows runs code not from the Microsoft Store. It's legacy. There wasn't always a Microsoft Store, running executable straight from floppy, CD-ROM or the Internet was the norm. Changing it now would be changing the product people already bought and break workflows.
iPhone never had that legacy. From day 0 it only ran Apple code. Then it ran 3rd party code via the App Store. There was no such legacy. But there are older products with such a legacy. Didn't your old Nintendo have precisely the same rules from day 0 and so do modern consoles?
Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
#585Some of my highlights: - "Irreparable Harm: The issue of irreparable harm focuses on the harm caused by not maintaining the status quo, as opposed to the separate and distinct element of a remedy under the likelihood of success factor. Here the court's evaluation is guided by the general notion that “self-inflicted wounds are not irreparable injury.” - "While the Court anticipates experts will opine that Apple’s 30 p…
> the Court doubts that an expert would suggest a zero percent alternative It's unfortunate that the percentage cut ends up overshadowing the real antitrust issue, which is that Apple (and Google) essentially has the power to make or break any arbitrary business that relies on their platform. They base it on vague and loosely enforced rules, which means companies never know if tomorrow is the end. Having a locked pla…
> It's unfortunate that the percentage cut ends up overshadowing the real antitrust issue
The merits of the antitrust part are not supposed to be handled in a TRO. Its purpose is to maintain the status quo and limit possibly irreparable damages while the complex issues are debated in court. Here the 30% cut is important because it's a matter of deciding what a reasonable number would be.
In the case most favorable to Epic, it could be reduced to a lower value after a lengthy court process, but it would not necessarily change the nature of the market / economy. In other antitrust cases, you could have situations where the continued infringement by a near monopolistic entity would indeed qualify for a restraining order as the final judgment would arrive after the smaller competitor would be long dead.
Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
#586Earlier quoted context omitted.
> why not? Easy: a link off their site doesn't earn them any money. They want to you stay on their domain.
Is there a news site that does the opposite? Always cites sources, provide ample links throughout text? that’s the site I’d subscribe to.
This is probably not relevant to you, but there is Republik, a Swiss-German online magazine. They extensively link to their sources (see e.g. [1]). There are no ads, no pop-ups, no donation requests, no paywalls, just a (somewhat expensive) paid subscription.
[1] https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https:/...
Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
#587I still wonder why so many people buy devices, where the only software you could run has to be approved by the manufacturer. I think we should speak more about this fact, so that people think twice before they buy some device. I only make websites, but I am worried, that at some point, Apple would want me to pay them, so that my website is openable on their devices.
What great features do Android users get as a result of being able to sideload apps which aren’t available on the App Store? I believe the (weak) answer to the above is the answer to your question. Features are what matters to the majority of users. The ability to sideload apps itself is not.
So let's say you buy a game for $10 and the creator gets only $7 (as Apple keeps $3). But there could be an alterative app store, where the same game would be sold for $9, and the creator would get $8 (the store would keep $1). So the reason is, that with competition, the price of software could decrease and you would save money.
I don't mind that Apple keeps a large commission. But I mind the fact, that Apple has a monopoly on iOS software distribution, and the monopoly is always bad for the customers.
Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
#588Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The iPhone was not ubiquitous when the App Store was released. But it is ubiquitous now. As of last month, the iphone now has 52.4% of the US market. > The 30% cut was there from the very start, and people were fine with it. Anticompetitive behavior become illegal when a company has enough market power. > It's only now that people are turning around and complaining Well yes, that is how anti-competitive laws work.…
Taking a 30% cut from app store sales isn't anti-competitive though. If anything, it allows other platforms to compete on price. Which is exactly what Android does. Developers can't whinge if people still buy iPhones despite the restrictions on what you can and can't do on it. The Microsoft case is completely different, in that it favored IE over other browsers based on the APIs the software was allowed access to. Ap…
> Apple allows all apps to access the iOS APIs
No: it allows very specific kinds of apps that follow very specific rules that are selectively enforced, to use iOS APIs.
That's the problem. You can't, for example, build an app that competes with the app store itself.
Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
#589Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, it's highly relevant. Consider Spotify vs Apple music. If Spotify has to charge X + 30% to subscriber's on iPhone in order to make X then they absolutely can't compete on price if Apple simply charges X.
You're just making things up. Apple has explicit exceptions for multi platform subscriptions. The only condition they require is that developers should not cripple the iOS app by removing the ability to create an account from within the app (which means your app essentially has to offer in app purchases as a valid way of obtaining a subscription). If users want they can create an account on Mac (or even on iOS Safari…
Can you create a netflix account within the app on iOS? I thought they specifically had an exception for "reader apps" (and Netflix somehow fell in that category).
I don't use netflix to check.
Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
#590Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the Court doubts that an expert would suggest a zero percent alternative It's unfortunate that the percentage cut ends up overshadowing the real antitrust issue, which is that Apple (and Google) essentially has the power to make or break any arbitrary business that relies on their platform. They base it on vague and loosely enforced rules, which means companies never know if tomorrow is the end. Having a locked pla…
> It's unfortunate that the percentage cut ends up overshadowing the real antitrust issue The merits of the antitrust part are not supposed to be handled in a TRO. Its purpose is to maintain the status quo and limit possibly irreparable damages while the complex issues are debated in court. Here the 30% cut is important because it's a matter of deciding what a reasonable number would be. In the case most favorable to…
> In the case most favorable to Epic, it could be reduced to a lower value
No.
The most favourable outcome would be allowing Epic and others who already have their own sales and payment channels to use them alongside the app store payment system.
I think that's the main reason this lawsuit exists. I don't think Epic or Spotify really want to creat their own iOS app store.