Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

571–580 of 639 posts

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#571

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

jackvalentine wrote: post #543
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This false argument is done to death by Apple apologists. Apple sells the device, but somehow feels itself entitled to control what the user can and can't do to it even after sale. It shouldn't be their business which apps a user wants to run on the device.

"This false argument" Why don't you address it then? There is a world of more open software and hardware out there if you want that freedom. Why should everyone be subject to exactly the product you want?

It was addressed a lot of times before, but OK, I'll do it again.

You see, you too want the product I am describing, but you are too myopic to understand it. Maybe it is because you come from a better place than I, where the government does not actively censor app stores. Imagine, that some day Apple will remove the app you use, would you still say 'ok, I knew what product I bought'?

With iOS devices, you don't buy a product that can run a set of apps. You buy a product where the app you use may stop working any day, because some random moderator or executive at Apple will decide this way.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#572

Post by alkonaut »

joshvm wrote: post #469
alkonaut wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a news site that does the opposite? Always cites sources, provide ample links throughout text? that’s the site I’d subscribe to.

Believe it or not, Wikipedia. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Current_events

Thanks. That works for international news reporting. It's a bit thin on local coverage, and anything that is non-news but usually part of a newspaper (opinion/debate, reviews...) isn't there. The easier it is to get the news bit everywhere, the more important the other parts of a newspaper becomes to me.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#573

Post by imtringued »

anoncake wrote: post #523
LoSboccacc wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why people keep dragging Google into this, when Android has plenty solutions for distributing APK outside their play store?

Android is better, but far from acceptable. Alternative app stores cannot install and update apps in the background. Without root that is – which Google also fights against.

How is that far from acceptable? It's perfectly fine. This battle is not about who has the nicest store. It's about who has the right to a store at all.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#574

Post by imtringued »

causality0 wrote: post #5

A victory for sanity. Apple threatening developmental licenses and anyone who used the Unreal Engine was nothing short of mafia-esque, and just as obviously Fortnite being restored to the app store is a matter for Epic's lawsuit against apple.

Apple freezing developer accounts was out of line but Fortnite was taken off of Google's and Apple's stores because Epic knowingly broke the rules. They introduced "VBUCKS" that bypass in-app purchases.

> and just as obviously Fortnite being restored to the app store is a matter for Epic's lawsuit against apple.

They can easily roll back their TOS breaking update and the game will be available as early as today. The reality is that they broke the rules so they could sue.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#575

Post by stale2002 »

Thorentis wrote: post #564
stale2002 wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The iPhone was not ubiquitous when the App Store was released. But it is ubiquitous now. As of last month, the iphone now has 52.4% of the US market. > The 30% cut was there from the very start, and people were fine with it. Anticompetitive behavior become illegal when a company has enough market power. > It's only now that people are turning around and complaining Well yes, that is how anti-competitive laws work.…

Taking a 30% cut from app store sales isn't anti-competitive though. If anything, it allows other platforms to compete on price. Which is exactly what Android does. Developers can't whinge if people still buy iPhones despite the restrictions on what you can and can't do on it. The Microsoft case is completely different, in that it favored IE over other browsers based on the APIs the software was allowed access to. Ap…

> Taking a 30% cut from app store sales isn't anti-competitive though

That is not what the court case is asserting is anti-competitive.

The anti-competitive action is that Apple prevents competing app stores on the platform. Preventing competitors from competing is explicitly the definition of anti-competitive. High prices can be a consequence of anti-competitive behavior but is not really the main issue. The main issue has to do with.... reducing competition by stopping competitors, which Apple definitely does.

Apple doesn't even pretend to claim that it is not preventing competitors, honestly. The question is whether Apple is large enough that anti-competition laws apply to them. (Which they obviously are, given that they now have 52.4% of the phone duopoly, as of last month)

> it allows other platforms to compete on price

No, actually. Competing app stores cannot be put on the iPhone, due to Apple's actions. These competing app stores cannot compete for iPhone users.

> it favored IE

Apple favors its own app store, over competitors, in that it literally prevents other app stores from competing at all on the iPhone.

> Apple allows all apps

No, it does not allow other app stores, no.

> If you think it costs too much, don't pay it!

You should read the lawsuit. The anti-competitive behavior is not the price. This instead had to do with Apple preventing competing app stores.

Also, that is a bad argument, because "just dont use it" is not a valid defense when a company is engaging in anti-competitive practices.

> Nobody is forcing you to distribute software for the iPhone

Another bad argument. This would not at all be valid if Microsoft used it as an argument regarding software installed on the PC. That argument would be invalid, if microsoft prevented competitors from being installed on PC.

> If you're lamenting

No, I am saying that anti-competitive practices should be stopped.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#576

Post by genocidicbunny »

kergonath wrote: post #489
burnte wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking away and revoking are the same. The legal work is revoke, they're revoking Epic's license to use MacOS and iOS development tools. That was beyond the scope of the violation, which was an App Store rule violation. The goal of that move was to prevent Epic from even developing non-App Store content, which I don't think anyone could not foresee it affecting other developers, which I'm fairly sure was the intent.…

> Taking away and revoking are the same. The legal work is revoke, they're revoking Epic's license to use MacOS and iOS development tools. Sorry, my sentence was poorly worded. They threatened to revoke Epic’s license, not the other developers’ (which, again, is what the OP claimed and is specifically what I disputed). I think they did go overboard with the intent to push Epic to settle, yes. And Epic were ready for…

They threatened to effectively revoke other developers licenses. Its plainly clear that if Apple blocks Epic from being able to continue to work on UE for iOS and macOS, they would affect other developers that are currently using Unreal Engine and have not breached Apple's terms. While Apple was not threatening to directly revoke those developers license, the net effect would have been equivalent. This is why the court ruled that Apple cannot currently do this. It's not necessarily because Apple is actually doing something wrong, but because during this litigation, such actions which may not be directly pertinent to the litigation, may have negative effects on unrelated parties.

The court isn't saying Apple is wrong for threatening to block Epic fully, including UE. The court is saying that doing say _may_ not be legal and thus Apple should hold off on it until the court has had time to deliberate the issue. It is only prudent of the court to work to reduce the variables in this situation and to prevent potential harm to innocent parties.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#577

Post by lionkor »

msh wrote: post #103
badsectoracula wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah oh, the "security" power word has been brought up, time to turn off our brains and accept everything i guess :-(

No, seriously, how would you build a computer platform that everybody, even computer iliterate people can use and install programs without constantly ending up with malware, scams and other nasty stuff that steals their money or information? The apple iOS model seems to be the most promising here. It comes with huge tradeoffs in user control but for a large part of the worlds population I think its the right choice.

You should try a linux system. They have an app store equivalent, but where everything is safe (as in security).

But in this case you dont lose any level of control, since the appstore itself there isnt limited. The only thing not allowed is unsecure apps. Thats all.

Yes the iOS idea is great, but there is no need to impose arbitrary restrictions.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#578

Post by lionkor »

klmadfejno wrote: post #111
msh wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a security nightmare.

Then make it hard, with a scary pop up, so technical people can make an informed choice and tech illiterates cannot.

or get a package manager equivalent like linux systems, that solves literally all these issues

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#579

Post by anoncake »

nodamage wrote: post #524
anoncake wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android is better, but far from acceptable. Alternative app stores cannot install and update apps in the background. Without root that is – which Google also fights against.

To be honest, it seems like a really bad idea to give third-party app installers root access to your phone though...

It's a bad idea to run software you don't trust, with or without root.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#580

Post by anoncake »

imtringued wrote: post #573
anoncake wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android is better, but far from acceptable. Alternative app stores cannot install and update apps in the background. Without root that is – which Google also fights against.

How is that far from acceptable? It's perfectly fine. This battle is not about who has the nicest store. It's about who has the right to a store at all.

If prompting the user for every package update and installation is perfectly fine, why doesn't the play store do it?
Post reply on HN