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Global Mass Surveillance – The Fourteen Eyes

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121–130 of 161 posts

Re: Global Mass Surveillance – The Fourteen Eyes

#121
post #24

The Norwegian parliament recently passed a bill that implements bulk metadata collection here as well. I tried debating with ministers, writing op-eds, and even organizing petitions (over 1000 security, privacy and tech professionals in a couple of days) before the vote. While every informed person I know thinks it's a bad idea, and every organization consulted massively criticized it as mass surveillance, a huge maj…

> my jaw was literally agape from some comments

I am curious, would you mind sharing some of them?

Re: Global Mass Surveillance – The Fourteen Eyes

#122
post #25
post #22

Surveillance pertains to asymmetric information, a situation where a few in the society (those in power) have access to the information of the rest of the society (those not in power, namely, the public) but not conversely. The asymmetry of the information gives those in power great advantage over public. The rich and powerful claim, we monitor you to protect you, and to better serve you. The scope and the characteri…

What I don't see many talk about is how much harm the belief that they harvest everything is, on top of just the actual deed itself. If I am an organization that is well known to be spying on everyone and anything, that means I can very convincingly fabricate evidence against my enemies. It goes beyond simple spying, they now have the ability to manufacture whatever truth they'd like.

> What I don't see many talk about is how much harm the belief that they harvest everything is, on top of just the actual deed itself.

Snowden, Assange? They've both talk(ed) at great length about the perils of a Society that will self-censor due to the fear of retribution that follows when everything one has said be it in text/phone/online is constantly held in bulk collection.

Moreover, if anyone has followed what has occurred in China where dissenters are forced into re-education black op sites and are forced into public apologies, or in other cases they're disappeared altogether, you have what then appears like a very forceful form of cohesive group think.

This occurred in HK prior to the passing of the NSL, people were essentially trying to scrub their online presence for fear of retroactive punishment from the CCP [1], who only hours after forcefully passing the bill to great local and international condemnation, started to arrest 'violators.'

Which gives the CCP the appearance of a forceful enforcer of its policy writ large, at least on the surface with low hanging fruit like journalists and physicians speaking out about COVID on the mainland, but in reality China is wrought with seemingly permissible corruption provided you have any connection to the CCP.

In this respect this isn't a East Vs West issue, but rather one of the oppressed and the oppressors, if Government is to exist at all, I think a mandate of constant surveillance and absolute financial transparency should be in order.

I fear Humanity refuses to accept we must create alternatives to the Nation State model, which this pandemic and economic crises has clearly demonstrated to have failed in every conceivable metric. There are outliers, but they tend to be more city-states, which I'm not entirely averse to but can also have the very same entrenched power traps that the nation state model has.

If anyone has the time I highly recommend Snowden s recent talk with Naomi Kilne on Vice [2] discussing the path forward to circumvent the Surveillance State/Economy that has been created by the Tech Industry that has only been incredibly sped up in the aftermath of the COVID pandemic and the protest against police violence/crime.

At the end the people talent, many of whom hang out here, are the one's that build this tech not the corrupt politician(s), nor the VC big wig. Having them re-evaluate their positions is critical moving forward, as both conclude that this much needed detour will simply not occur from the Leadership.

1: https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Hong-Kongers-erase-digital-...

2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUnbhXtXixc

Re: Global Mass Surveillance – The Fourteen Eyes

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"On August 31, 2006, al-Awlaki was arrested with four others on charges of kidnapping a Shiite teenager for ransom, and participating in an al-Qaeda plot to kidnap a U.S. military attaché.[50][80] He was imprisoned in 2006 and 2007.[56] He was interviewed around September 2007 by two FBI agents with regard to the 9/11 attacks and other subjects. John Negroponte, the U.S. Director of National Intelligence, told Yemeni…

>Look I'm no fan of drone strikes in general, but if you leave the United States to go join a terrorist organization and incite violence against the U.S. and other innocent people in other countries like Somalia..you clearly have lost Constitutional protection. We don't give trials for foreign terrorists or armies, that's a given. So if I accuse you of a bad enough crime due process doesn't matter? Seems like a prett…

He wasn't merely accused, he was living with Al Quaeda in Yemen. If I move in with Al-Quaeda in Yemen and incite acts of terrorism against America and other civilians in Yemen and Somalia, yes, it doesn't fucking matter. Any Navy SEAL is free to kill me if I ever do something that stupid and criminal. In fact, I'll even pre-posthumously thank him for his service.

Re: Global Mass Surveillance – The Fourteen Eyes

#124
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true in the United States, unless you conflate all the governments within the United States as "the government" and ignore the federal system. In the United States, either Congress or the States may adopt a proposed amendment with a 2/3 vote. However, and importantly, only the States can ratify the amendment with a 3/4 vote. This means that, in the United States, at least, "the government" itself cannot r…

State, federal, it's still the government.

No, not when state or county governments disagree with or refuse to enforce federal government laws. Haven't 37 US states legalized (to some extent) marijuana, while the federal government still has prohibition laws/rules in place? Or county/city governments that have countered executive orders from their respective state governments regarding COVID-19 (Orange county in Florida, or the Pennsylvania country York PA is in)?

Re: Global Mass Surveillance – The Fourteen Eyes

#125
My general sense is that offensive capabilities are much better than defensive ones when it comes to security / surveillance. e.g., even using a VPN and a vanilla browser with no history and arbitrary window size is nearly worthless when it comes to many forms of surveillance.

Are there any guides out there that consider all the means by which you can attempt to shield yourself from these intrusions, including a description of the attack vectors?

Re: Global Mass Surveillance – The Fourteen Eyes

#126
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The last guy who touched upon it On the other hand, people like Chomsky aren't being persecuted. Though all in all, I would also say they get ignored very efficiently, Chomsky still isn't exactly unknown either. Is there a Chinese author and speaker with decades of real harsh criticism of their government under their belt, who is living in China with their works being translated in all sorts of languages and also a…

You can't really draw a direct comparison between PRC and the US, and ask how China would react to a 'Chinese Chomsky'. Their respective conditions and rational incentives for population control are not very similar. The US (after the fall of the USSR) is a country who's stability has not truly been threatened by criticism and dissident voices, while China is a state which has been and currently is extremely vulnerab…

Very brave of you to post this comment on HN ;)

Re: Global Mass Surveillance – The Fourteen Eyes

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they can't. It's incredibly hard to amend the Constitution of the United States. That's by design. You need 2/3 vote in both the House and the Senate and 3/4 of all states to ratify an amendment in order to change it. You can't be deemed "a dangerous criminal" without having actually been convicted in a court of law by a jury of your peers. And even then, there's appeals, pardons, etc. > What good does the right t…

>You can't be deemed "a dangerous criminal" without having actually been convicted in a court of law by a jury of your peers. And even then, there's appeals, pardons, etc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki

Didn't they just declare AntiFa and Proud Boys terrorist groups? Better not wear black downtown after 9pm or you might catch a free "UBER".

Re: Global Mass Surveillance – The Fourteen Eyes

#129
post #128

Is it five eyes or five Is like in Intelligence services? If it is eyes shouldn't it be 10 eyes? Two eyes per country or is it meant like "in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king"?

> If it is eyes shouldn't it be 10 eyes?

Rather imagine Sauron eyes.

Re: Global Mass Surveillance – The Fourteen Eyes

#130
post #30

I'm asking this question not to spark a contentious debate or be ridiculed. But I'm genuinely curious, as someone who has little experience with China and only lived in the US, is the US just as much of a surveillance state as China? We often hear a lot of 'information' (bordering propaganda), about China being an "authoritarian surveillance state". I don't mean to sound absurd, but is the US that much better in term…

Honestly they probably try just as hard to get into your email as China. The difference is what happens afterward. Even the slightest dissent in China can land you in prison and be the next one on the organ donor list for someone in the CCP. In the USA unless you're planning terrorism or some criminal act they are just going to consider you boring. I suspect it's the same in all these these 14 eyes countries as well as other technologically advanced (the 1% mind you) countries are doing the same to the limits of their technology. It's just what governments do. Whether they can use it in court if they got it illegally is another thing in the USA. It's sad to say but the Patriot Act negated a lot of US citizens rights to seek a fair trial and not be searched (digitally or otherwise) . It is the worst bit of legislation against freedom in the USA since the nation began.
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