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2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

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191–200 of 210 posts

Re: 2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because races aren't genetically distinct in any substantial way, and Eurasian and African climates match North and South American ones, indigenous societies in the Americas would presumably follow the same trajectory as the indigenous societies elsewhere. This is not to absolve colonialists of guilt for the horrific consequences of their actions. 'If I didn't, someone else would' is not a moral justification. But if…

I'm not an anthropologist but the ideology mismatch was more than just race. Colonialism is, to me, a gumbo of nationalism, classism, religion, seasoned with a generous helping of some other ideologies, like our flavor of mastery over nature. I will challenge your conclusion though, at least in a qualified manner. We do preserve things that we understand better before the option to exploit them arises. But. We do ten…

It is my view that our flavor of mastery over nature is a deterministic consequence of the advantage that it gives. I think that is unlikely that European society just decided to make that a value because they liked doing it, or had less knowledge than indigenous peoples.

To clarify, I don't think this is a good process, but I think it is an inevitable one. If there had been no colonialism, societies in the Americas would have reached their own equillibrium, and competition would have driven them to 'progress' as we know it. There would have been much less death, but civilisation would run its course all the same.

And additional clarification because I phrased my position on the current situation poorly: I think we can still save things. I just think there is no way for us to have skirted the initial destruction, and we would eventually have reached this point regardless.

Re: 2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

#192
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think I am saying "climate change is a fear-mongering hoax!", you are reading in things I never said. I'm an environmental studies major myself, though I never completed my bachelor's degree. I also have a lot of personal reasons why my personal philosophy can be boiled down to "It's the end of the world as we know it -- and I feel fine." I said nothing about climate change at all. Jumping to conclusions about…

Sorry if this post seemed like a response to yours. It’s not. I didn’t find your post unreasonable, nor did I think you were implying that climate change is non-existent. You simply were pointing out fire’s role in nature, and I added my own response in-line with your post to call out what I see as a distinction between milder forest fires and the ones that are becoming more common today. In general I aim to respond…

So it bothers you that during a global pandemic, people weren't wrist-slashingly depressed for five minutes and you felt it was important they return to that state to gratify you in some way?

I'm not someone saying climate change is a hoax, nor am I saying that concerns about it are mere fear mongering. But I see nothing to be gained by concluding we are clearly doomed already and should just throw in the towel now.

That's called self fulfilling prophecy. If we make zero effort to find a path forward, you can bet dollars to donuts we won't find a path forward.

Re: 2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, there aren’t any giant sequoias in the areas impacted by these fires. The range for giant sequoias is a few hundred miles to the East, on the slopes of the Sierras. They don’t grow in the coastal mountains.

FYI, 12,000 acres are on fire in the Sequoia National Forest, where giant sequoias grow. https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/7048/

the fire is moving away from the nearest Sequoia grove near Freeman Creek. wind forecast looks alright too.

Re: 2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

#194
post #182

selective harvesting (thinning), controlled burns and other tasks are hard sells to tree hugging Californians. However, it could be someone's livelihood AND a partial solution to the issues that come up. How much do we spend on forest firefighting? How much do we spend on "no logging" lobbying? How much do we spend on smoke inhalation property damage and all the public communications? All that could be recouped AND a…

Loggers tend to clear cut large trees, which is the exact opposite of what we need. Obviously if they wanted to thin out the smaller trees that would be beneficial but the profitability there is questionable.

Loggers would love to cut down these ancient beauties. I hope they never get the chance to, but I worry with Presidents like the current one if at some point in the future they will tell the loggers to flatten these old growth forests just to make a few bucks.

Re: 2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

#195
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world is getting hotter, but only parts of it are getting drier. Parts of it are getting wetter. Overall it will get wetter. For each 1C rise in temperature, the air can hold about 7% [1] more water vapor. Warmer air above warmer oceans will pick up more water and dump it over much the same places as it does now, although the prevailing winds and ocean currents changing will also change that up. I think the effec…

This is a good and interesting report, thank you. As you implied, this is about averages , which is useful though incomplete. "Global Warming"/"Climate Change" is, to state something pretty obvious, about additional energy in an active system. That means, of course, more total heat across the entire system. However, I think a far more important aspect is how much more active the system as a whole gets. I don't have t…

> However, I think a far more important aspect is how much more active the system as a whole gets. I don't have time to get into it in detail here, but overall that means there will be more and more extremes. More droughts. More floods. More severe winds. More heat waves. More freezing storms.

I don't think there is much evidence to support this relationship. I'd be glad to be proven wrong.

Re: 2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

#196

Why are there always so many fires in California?

There are always naturally started fires and they happen relatively often, what happens though is humans come along, build in the middle of the forest and then put out all the small fires and brush, leaves, fallen trees and branches build up over decades and when one of those small fires gets bigger and bigger and can't be contained, you get what is happening right now.

Re: 2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

#197
post #9

“Withstand” is a funny word. Forests need fire. Fire is destructive to the organs (flora and fauna) but beneficial to the organism (a forest). I’m thinking of all of the sequoia seeds, now germinated from the fire[1], that will sprout next year into full sunlight that hasn’t touched the forest floor in hundreds of years. It is sad though that it’s also destructive to the lives of so many people. May everyone find saf…

> It is sad though that it’s also destructive to the lives of so many people. Eh, maybe it's just me but I've always felt worse for the animals than the people.

People are animals and also part of nature, no matter how far above it we think that we are.

Re: 2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

#198
post #41

Lindy

i believe ^^ is referring to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect This concept could be applied to mean that because the forest survived this event, we should expect to last much longer than previously assumed. (something like that at least...)

Correct. Not sure who these unread swine with their trigger happy downboat buttons think they are.

As well, that the tree is already 2,000 years old, we shouldn't be surprised it's survived this fire. It's survived many fires.

Re: 2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Further to that, the global temperature anomaly has caused rainfall patterns to change, meaning some places are trending wetter, and some drier, and crucially, volatility has increased. Having wet seasons, generating fuel load, followed by dry is more problematic than a sustained drought.

This was actually part of my theory of why California electric companies got so lazy about tree and brush removal around their power lines. I don't think it's a coincidence that just 1 year after exiting a 6 year drought state power companies started huge fires in both Northern and Southern California.

So, I'm curious, what do you think would motivate a power company to let their infrastructure burn, along with the trees?

Re: 2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

#200
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concerning issue with this fire is that humans have spent most of the last 100 years suppressing wildfires in these forests. This leads to an unprecedented amount of fuel built up on the forest floor, which leads to abnormally large and hot wildfires. Fortunately, it doesn’t seem to be too much for the redwoods, though time will tell.

> This leads to an unprecedented amount of fuel built up on the forest floor Everybody forgets the second part. Unprecedent amount of fuel AND WATER. Forest soil is a sponge plenty of fungus, tender roots, moss, and roundworms. This means that there is a lot of water in the soil also (and that each year there is more water in the area until is fireproof). Plant tissues store water also. Rainforests do not burn sponta…

That may be true in rain forests. It's not true in the forests here in California, which dries out almost entirely over the course of the long, hot summer (it often doesn't rain from April to November).
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