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Syllabus for Eric's PhD Students

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Re: Syllabus for Eric's PhD Students

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Concretely, even if you don't know what the answer is going to be at the end of your research, you must think about, or have an idea about, the format of what that amazing answer is going to be. Write the outline of your thesis and "ghost out" what the major charts will be. Write the intro sentences of each chapter -- what are they? (and I don't just mean the boring review of the field part, but your findings part)…

Well, I think one of the shifts that happened is that research changed from "I'm charting my own course in an undiscovered field and accept all liability" to "a university factory promises me a degree and experience". But here there is an incomplete jump -- in some programs it looks like a well-charted degree program, but has all the liability of research that may not work out. That's why I think (as pointed out abov…

The illusion that we are supposed to uphold is that brilliance and serendipity can be planned for, can be scheduled and made into an academic program. Actually research and scientific discovery should never be the job of someone. It should be a side product of general activity in a field, something that is already useful even without the discovery (if you're poor). Or just lesure hobby activity that is fine if nothing comes out of it (if you're rich).

It's also part of the whole inflation and treadmill thing going on in education and titles. Generations ago, going to high school was something significant. For the next generation, high school was the default and college became a special thing. Now the majority (in the US) goes to college. Within the family it feels like satisfying progress. Parents look on their kids and feel proud that they are making it further than they themselves did. But now a Master's degree can be a bit too generic. Having a PhD can be nice in industry nowadays (though of course not required).

So what used to be a special thing for a limited circle of select few with the background and fallback that allowed failure, is now becoming a factory process. PhDs are produced by the thousands and thousands, and we pretend they all pushed science forward. There is a flood of papers accompanying this. Tiny steps forward or mixing and matching existing things, but selling a big story around it, flag planting, trying to claim a huge area when only a tiny aspect of it is actually demonstrated, drawing out huge conclusions etc.

There are many reasons for this. The general societal inflation is just one thing. The other is the overall quantification, standardization and uniformization in our zeitgeist. There must be a standard process for everything. The politicians and bureaucrats demand to have a standard process for innovation. You must know in advance exactly "how many pieces of innovation" will you produce per year, what will be the impact of it etc. Then when you tell them about your plans, all they hear is the number of buzzwords mentioned from the latest fads and tune out otherwise. Ah and they look at your publication list of course. If you churned out many papers in the past, you will probably do that as well in this round of funding, and those papers can all be attached to the funding agency reports, so that will make the agency look good towards the ministry or whatever.

Re: Syllabus for Eric's PhD Students

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we need to teach students about project management, planning etc. This is a problem with education in general. Those things should be taught in middle/high school as essential tools for modern life. Same as personal finances, effective strategies for team/group work, overcoming social anxiety, managing stress and building/maintaining relationships (personal and professional).

I'm not sure I agree. Everyone's situation in a PhD is different enough that the only general concepts you could teach would be high level and useless. Personal finance classes in high school are filled with junk like "make sure to spend less than you earn" and "here's how you balance a checkbook" and "never forget to pay your bills". For group work, the workshops I've taken for it talk about "listen before speaking"…

You are saying that you've had bad experiences with courses trying to teach those things. Those things might not be easy to teach. But that doesn't mean they are useless or that they shouldn't be taught. To me, it means the methods of teaching those things, in the workshops you took, should be improved.

Re: Syllabus for Eric's PhD Students

#43
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a rising 5th year PhD in ML -- I could not agree with this advice more! I have very hands-off advisors. I spent the first 3 years "wandering the woods to find something". Last year, I really had to sit down and think about how I can finish up my PhD on time. I pretty much did what you outline here. A lot of tools I used were organization tools I learned from my business school/product manager friends. I honestly t…

> at no point do we receive any training regarding practical components of research I think the fact is that most advisors get no training regarding the practical components of being an advisor. So it really shouldn't be a surprise that there's a huge amount of variation here. One my big takeaways from my own PhD was that different professors have wildly different levels of ability in terms of people management. All…

That’s true in undergrad too.

I had an advisor who just didn’t have a skill in or desire to advise. I didn’t discover this until in my junior year he went on sabbatical and the professor in transitioned to was really amazing. I still communicate with him 20 years later and hear about intern candidates, etc.

It’s one of those areas you need to know about — it never occurred to me to ask about or really look into what an advisor relationship can or should be!

Re: Syllabus for Eric's PhD Students

#45
This is a fascinating look inside the academic system.

Eric, a question if I may:

Is there room for a modern PhD that values breadth over depth?

The goal of completing a Ph.D. program is to become the most knowledgable person in the world about a specific topic. While this is a valuable goal for disciplines that reward specialization, it does not provide enough flexibility for autodidacts with a range of interests.

A P.h.D. typically takes between 3 and 6 years of self-directed study. If candidates spend between 35 to 70 hours per week, this amounts to 5,250 hours on the low-end and 21,000 hours at the extreme end.

Of course, not all of this time is spent on research. In fact, modern P.h.D. students spend more time than necessary dealing with administrative functions like teaching, grading, and paperwork for the university.

What would you recommend to someone planning their own "personal PhD"? That is, four to six years of self-directed research on a specific topic.

This is something I think about often. Many citizen scientists like Franklin, Edison, and Darwin were not the result of PhD programs but instead curious professionals who conducted independent research.

Other specific questions:

- What is a suitable replacement for the role of advisor? Is there a representative person outside of academia who would provide the same type of advice?

- What type of fields are best suited to personal PhDs? Low capital investment (ie, no expensive lab equipment) seems like a constraint?

Like I said, I think about this often and have written more on the topic here: https://sundayscaries.substack.com/p/the-lifetime-curriculum...

Re: Syllabus for Eric's PhD Students

#47
post #40

I think a point of tension for grad students is that many don't realize a PhD program is more so a job than it is another part of your education. Your advisor is generally paying for you with their hard earned grant money and relies on your results for their own success. In typical 9-5 job terms, the advisor is the manager and the PhD students are the individual contributors. It's a harsh realization that many grad s…

Nooo :-) If you find yourself in a PhD program with an advisor who thinks like the above, it's really important to not internalize their viewpoint. It's not a job. A job would pay much better! It's not your advisors money, and they aren't paying you to advance their career. Independence is critical, but so that you can avoid becoming someone else's cheap labor, and can instead focus on doing work that educates you an…

Hard disagree. I made every possible mistake that can be made related to being too idealistic about grad school; for example, I believed:

- My advisor and collaborators have my best interests at heart

- My primary role in graduate school is to develop novel, useful, reproducible ideas

- Grants, fellowships, and stipends are generous donations freely given in order to enable the above

- Quality is more important than quantity

These kinds of sentiments caused more damage to my career than any other mistakes I have made (fortunately, I survived...so far). When someone gives you money, they definitely expect something in return, even if that something is not always clearly stated, and that something is almost always related to the donor's own career advancement.

There are PIs who absolutely prey on this kind of idealism. They can find certain kinds of idealistic students, use them up, and discard them. Graduate students should be told from day one that they need to look out for their own interests, because no one else will. I'm sure there are exceptions, but they are just that.

The best that can be reasonably hoped for from an advisor-advisee relationship is a clear understanding that it is a mutually beneficial transaction with bidirectional expectations. It makes me uncomfortable that the OP document obscures this fact.

> they aren't paying you to advance their career

What are they paying you for, then?

Re: Syllabus for Eric's PhD Students

#48

I will just offer some unsolicited advice about PhDs, as it came up a few weeks ago also. And the author touches on this. Of course this mostly applies to empirical sciences, but maybe some theoretical ones too. An effective PhD advisor/thesis isn't wandering the woods to find something. It's a guided coaching exercise, with an outcome in mind. Test whether the PhD advisor you select knows this and has a history of t…

> An effective PhD advisor/thesis isn't wandering the woods to find something. It's a guided coaching exercise, with an outcome in mind.

There is a tradeoff here. One of Eric's selling points for his lab is obviously that students get a lot of intellectual freedom to develop their own ideas. This is the "wandering the woods" approach, which was my advisor's as well. The advantage is the freedom, as well as the responsibility and intellectual independence that comes from exercising it. The disadvantage is that it can lead to a lot of wasted time and dead ends.

The "guided coaching exercise", when taken to the opposite extreme, results in an advisor that hands a project with clearly defined goals and outcomes to the student. That kind of approach usually, in my experience, leads to more and higher-impact papers. It does not develop the student very well, but it does develop their CV, which is quite important, and once that student becomes a postdoc, it is do-or-die time, and every CV item helps.

But if we just view this advice as "how should someone doing a project conceptualize their project", this is good advice. Although you would be astonished how many PIs don't follow it. I've had PIs want to write papers before seeing a single figure. I've had countless collaborators send me data to analyze without any clear idea what sort of results/analysis they want, without a hypothesis even.

Re: Syllabus for Eric's PhD Students

#50
post #40

I think a point of tension for grad students is that many don't realize a PhD program is more so a job than it is another part of your education. Your advisor is generally paying for you with their hard earned grant money and relies on your results for their own success. In typical 9-5 job terms, the advisor is the manager and the PhD students are the individual contributors. It's a harsh realization that many grad s…

Nooo :-) If you find yourself in a PhD program with an advisor who thinks like the above, it's really important to not internalize their viewpoint. It's not a job. A job would pay much better! It's not your advisors money, and they aren't paying you to advance their career. Independence is critical, but so that you can avoid becoming someone else's cheap labor, and can instead focus on doing work that educates you an…

I think treating it as a job where 75% of the salary is experience is probably the right attitude. FWIW I worked with a lot of grad students and anecdotally saw the best outcomes from people who within 2-3 months of showing up knew exactly what they wanted to do, were in the lab 10-8 to do it, graduated in 4-5 years and immediately got top-tier jobs.

I knew people who spent (7, 8, 9, 10, 11) years as a PhD student and they sure didn't seem happy or end up particularly good places...

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