Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can't really compare JS to Google or Facebook. It's still a company of * Very flat hierarchy and very limited bureaucracy. At JS there's like at most two people between you and the folks who run the place. * JS is technically isolated. They're not really part of the same conversation as the web-focused and much more public tech giants are. Lots of NIH, custom hand-rolled solutions. Maybe part of that is a consequ…
> More of a 9-6, butt-in-chair mentality than at other tech jobs I've worked. There's some flexibility about the 9-6 thing (and 9-6 can be pretty optimistic at times), but they're limited by the nature of the markets. At the time and for me, anyway, there was zero possibility of ever doing any work at home. COVID may have changed this. This sort of thing precisely. My perception of these companies is that they are no…
What the interns have wrought, 2020 edition
181–190 of 219 posts
Re: What the interns have wrought, 2020 edition
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
I cannot speak for Jane Street, in particular, but I have spent many years working at a very similar firm, and Investment is not Technology. There are engineers working in Investment, yes, but the risk profiles, the payout profiles and the focus of their work is very different. Investment deals with getting and analysing data, understanding the market and their algos, coming up with trading ideas, handling their PB r…
You can tell someone worked on the old wallstreet when they jump to explain that engineers are not a part of the core finance business. I've seen this trope a million times, and it used to be true. In 2020, the hedge funds making the most money are the ones treating their technology people like they treat their investment people. They interact, receive similar (though not 2M+) pay, and the programmer often has a part…
Re: What the interns have wrought, 2020 edition
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
For what, exercising the "at-will employment" clause that's in most non-contractor employment contracts? You could no more sue them at that point than they could sue an employee for not giving two-weeks notice. Please don't spread misinformation.
In Canada this is not true and can be backed up with cases. If you live in an at-will state I completely understand you would have few rights. An employer can sue you for two weeks and any damages that comes from that event.
To the best of my knowledge, most of Canada follows the same rules and the only province that is likely to differ about this is Quebec.
Re: What the interns have wrought, 2020 edition
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm curious why you think HFT is harmful. They do the same job that human market makers used to do, buy vastly more efficiently, leading to lower prices for "customers" (IE lower spreads), and lower profits for the industry: > TABB Group estimates that US equity HFT revenues have declined from approximately $7.2 billion in 2009 to about $1.3 billion in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20140404072855/http://tabbforum…
HFT specifically is a form of largely zero-sums arms races. Is it really useful to society if there are entities that issue orders with microsecond (or less) response times rather than on the order of seconds or minutes? Yet a significant amount of brainpower and resources is essentially wasted on this problem. The story about lower spreads is also rather dubious. I can believe that going to sub-second HFT reduces sp…
When you participate in the market, the spread is the "price" you have to pay to transact. When this goes down, it benefits all participants in the market, and especially the ones that are doing "long-term capital allocation" you are talking about. Rather than take my word for it, here's a quote from the CEO of Vanguard: “From a data perspective, we can see what’s happened to our fund shareholders over the last 20 years, and they’ve benefited by that reduction in transaction costs.” [1]. If you're managing trillions of dollars of 401ks, pension funds, etc, and you are constantly rebalancing your assets, buying new allocations, etc, any tiny reduction in average spread is a huge savings on net. A big part of the reason why there's been an almost universal reduction in fund management fees, saving retirement savers an enormous amount of money over the last 10 years or so is this reduction in spreads. This is absolutely a huge benefit to society, and its almost entirely attributable to HFTs.
You're correct that it HFT is a zero-sum arms race, and maybe you could make the argument that in an optimal allocation of society's resources, perhaps you could have less than the current number of participants. But I think you could actually make this argument about almost all lucrative & highly competitive fields. If anything, HFT is more productive per unit of labor, relative to other sectors of society - that's why the compensation is so high!
The total number of programmers and quants that work in HFT, at least for the 5-10 significant players, is probably less than the number of programmers Google alone employs (last I checked, there are about 30k programmers working at google. There's almost certainly less than 30k quants and programmers working at the main HFT firms). How many programmers do you "need" to optimize ads for eyeballs? Or how many programmers do you "need" to make mobile phone games? Or work on social networks? etc etc.
HFT is a small, niche, industry, and I think extremely productive per employee relative to most other industries. It replaced the tens of thousands of manual traders that used to be responsible for arbitrage and market making with automated robots, dramatically increasing market efficiencies while reducing the amount of human capital required to provide those services. It seems pretty misguided to make the argument that HFT is somehow "bad" or a "waste" of resources, given how much of an improvement it was to what there was before, and also given how small the industry really is.
[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2014/04/25/vanguard-chief-defends-high-...
Re: What the interns have wrought, 2020 edition
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can say my company is basically up-or-out. Even when you get to a senior level they expect continual improvement or a move to management. I'm an intermediate developer and have been at my company 8 years. I've been told by managers whom I am personal friends with that if I stay at this level much longer (5 years now), then the company might look for a reason to get rid of me.
How does your daily work differ from a "senior" dev at your company?
In general there is some truth to what they claim is the difference. It's supposed to be about how complex the work is. Senior devs should be dealing with more architecture/design, more coordinating with other groups/teams, and have greater expertise (they measure this by output and opinions).
If you get promoted they expect more output and hours. The policy is 7.5 hours per day but they unofficially expect 8.5 hours for senior devs and tech leads. It's a 15% jump in hours and only a 7% raise. I've actually filled the role of tech lead and then senior dev for two years on a previous team. They never officially promoted me due to politics and wanting me to work more hours than policy states. I've been passed over and screwed over probably 4 out of my 8 years here.
Re: What the interns have wrought, 2020 edition
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
All I gleaned from this is that there are tons of people making many multiples more than I ever will and that I'm basically the programmer equivalent of the Yugo (car).
If it makes you feel any better, I write flight software for spaceships and this post makes me feel the same way. Salary isn't the only way to measure worth.
I'm not sure what measurement would say I'm worth anything.
Re: What the interns have wrought, 2020 edition
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
My company basically restricts those sort of positions for business people that learn Python and R. They are very hesitant to promote IT people into that type of role. I'm getting tired of implementing/coding other people's solutions or just copying legacy processes into new tech. It would be nice to actually work on the problem and the processes that would most effectively solve them.
That sounds like a recipe for a lateral move. You've got the domain knowledge already; train up with an eye towards what other fintech companies are hiring for, and your chances of busting out of the rut are decent. Good luck!
Re: What the interns have wrought, 2020 edition
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
Technically HFT is a subset of algorithmic trading. Algorithmic trading can be done on both the buy (IE hedge fund) and sell (Investment bank) side, but does not need to be high frequency. High Frequency also means low latency- sub millisecond, and I have never seen an algo trading system of any sort that deals in latencies that are not in the millisecond range, though this isn't really a requirement. Does this help?
Yes. So seller A wants to sell for $1.00 and buyer B is willing to buy at $1.06, an algorithm will calculate the presence of this potential (or actually have knowledge from other systems that this a certainty) and purchase seller A's stock with a margin of overhead of $1.03 and sell to buyer B for $1.06 netting $0.03. The algorithm is essentially a parasitic entity.
Re: What the interns have wrought, 2020 edition
#189I know a guy who works at Jane Street; he was formerly one of the brightest undergrads at Caltech. He turned down an offer to do a PhD at Berkeley to take the Jane Street offer, IIRC. He is pretty idealistic and has an interesting philosophy about working in finance: he thinks moving money around isn't that societally valuable, but he donates 10-15% of his income to charity each year (I think he picks charities using…
he donates 10-15% of his income to charity each year For a lot of people, that's just normal life. When I was between jobs, I got a temp position installing a network and doing other IT stuff at a small midwestern Baptist church. During the transition to the new system, the secretary went on leave, so it fell to me to input the weekly donations into the accounting software. Some of the donations came in envelopes pre…
I do Effective Altruism, donating at least 10-15% of my income, but was only peripherally aware of people donating to church, and only thought it was pocket chance not thousands a year.
Donating to Effective Altruism charities is quite different ethically to tithing, though.
Re: What the interns have wrought, 2020 edition
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yep, and they use OCaml! I always feel like I have to point it out since people do not think much of it, have lots of misconceptions of it, and so on.
I guess I might have some misconceptions of OCaml. Are there other companies that use it? I ask because whenever someone says "OCaml is used in industry, for example, Jane Street", they say it like it's just one example, but it's always Jane Street.