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Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

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Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#371

Post by scarface74 »

nitrogen wrote: post #353
scarface74 wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it’s better to have yet another avenue for shady developers to take advantage of “whales” via loot boxes and in game consumables - the very thing that the government is going after? What jury is going to care that Epic can’t sell useless virtual currency and make a larger profit?

If Epic can make phones more open first, and then later the government regulates loot and pay-to-win like gambling is already regulated, then isn't that a win for the public?

Not if the same public has to deal with the same insecurity and vulnerabilities that iOS was designed to prevent.

Only geeks care about “openness”, ordinary people don’t have a problem with any app that Apple is blocking besides probably MS’s streaming game system.

Epic itself released a buggy installer that caused a security vulnerability. Do you really want them to be the poster child?

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/08/fortnites-android-vu...

Out of all the problems that the App Store has. There are other options that would be better for the average consumer and better for the developer.

1. 30% is way too high for any service or app that has marginal cost. If Apple is going to force in app payments as option for those types of apps, it should allow Apple Pay (standard credit card processing fees $0.30 per transaction + 2-3%)

2. Any productivity app should be allowed to have the same “reader app” exemption.

3. I would be okay if any app that has out of store payments not showing up in the store unless the user specifically searches for it by name or navigates via an external link. That means Apple had nothing to do with app discovery.

4. Non game apps that are subscription based start off at 15%

5. Allow upgrade pricing.

6. Allow a scaling percentage. The more you bring Apple, the less of a percentage you take.

7. Any game that only has a one time in app purchase to unlock the game from demo to full version should be able to pay a lower percentage. This is what Apple should be encouraging.

Mix and match any of these suggestions. They are more fair to developers.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#372

Post by jhloa2 »

neogodless wrote: post #75
Shivetya wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it does not matter to the vast majority of people. In fact many appreciate that there is a gate keeper. There are so many categories where you cannot load software outside of what the manufacturer provides that you cannot list them. It would also be impractical to allow otherwise for many of these. Then you end up with warranty issues. Would you allow people to load software of their choice for their automobi…

I am thankful every time I drive that I'm able to run software of my choice in my automobile. Mazda never seemed to get around to adding Android Auto to my 2015, and yet I use it whenever I feel like, and I didn't have to pay a dealer $300 to install software!

Yeah, people flash their ECMs all the time. I don't really see how using 3rd party software to boost power in a Tesla is all that different. Just don't cover any damage caused by the tinkering under warranty. Tesla just seems salty that they're missing out on their "DLC" profits.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#373

Post by scarface74 »

newacct583 wrote: post #357
scarface74 wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s still a negotiation tactic. Would shareholders be happy if the entire business model changed? There are other freelancers that aren’t happy with the laws.

> It’s still a negotiation tactic. Which is exactly what I said it was, and not consistent with your framing of departure as a "perfectly logical thing to do". I'm happy we agree.

Why isn’t negotiating a perfectly logically thing to do? You use the weapons you have.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#374

Post by pjmlp »

toyg wrote: post #293
pjmlp wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PCs only turned out different from any other siloed computing platform thanks to IBM not being able to sue Compaq. As for how it would be like, just like Acorn, Atari, Amiga and Apple were at the time.

I.e. killed by a more open platform and inevitable corporate mismanagement...?

Killed by Compaq being clever with clean room reverse engineering.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#375

Post by ocdtrekkie »

jariel wrote: post #284
causality0 wrote: post #5

A victory for sanity. Apple threatening developmental licenses and anyone who used the Unreal Engine was nothing short of mafia-esque, and just as obviously Fortnite being restored to the app store is a matter for Epic's lawsuit against apple.

It would have been more of a victory if Apple followed through with the action, because repercussions would have hit far and wide. Fortnite's entrapment move was powerful because Apple's actions are more exemplary than their threats. Perhaps it's time for some major app makers to have a day or two where they pull their apps.

> Perhaps it's time for some major app makers to have a day or two where they pull their apps.

Epic's actions with Fortnite were effectively this. They were aware Apple would pull the app, but that them doing so would give them clear standing to sue Apple for the contract terms.

For even a lot of "major" app makers though, pulling their apps off iOS in protest would put them out of business. (Even where Android excels in market share, Apple excels in revenue share by a wide margin.) By being a large multiplatform entity with more reliance on consoles and desktops, Epic is one of the few companies that can afford the hit to pick this fight.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#376

Post by dkonofalski »

badsectoracula wrote: post #153
sjwright wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Because having Apple in control of the device is valuable to me. VERY valuable. It's the big reason why I willingly pay more for Apple phones. If I wanted control over my phone, I don't need to "demand" it. I would have simply bought a different product. Meanwhile, I already have plenty of devices that I have control over. That's like asking why not insist that your Tesla Model 3 has a diesel engine, a manual tr…

> Why? Because having Apple in control of the device is valuable to me. VERY valuable. It's the big reason why I willingly pay more for Apple phones. You can give Apple initial (and practically temporary if you do not want to take it back) control over the device without actually forcing everyone else to do the same. > I would have simply bought a different product. What if you liked everything Apple does except the…

>What if you liked everything Apple does except the part about not allowing you to install 3rd party applications?

That's not what the situation is, though. I can love everything about my car except the part about it using gas. If they don't make that car in a non-ICE version, then I have no recourse. The same thing applies to this. They don't make a device that allows you to install any 3rd party apps. It's not an option so it's a pointless discussion.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#378

Post by t-writescode »

GeekyBear wrote: post #377

Epic seems to be asserting that access to Apple's developer tools requires a developer account. Since XCode is freely downloadable by anyone, does anybody know which tools they are talking about?

Mac OS X?

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#379

Post by GeekyBear »

admax88q wrote: post #281
a2tech wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this still an Epic issue? Basically if Epic delivered their engine to their customers as source code and NOT as a compiled binary couldn't the customers build the engine and include it in their App Store submission? But since Epic is trying to deliver the compiled engine to their customer (signed with their dev keys) thats where the problem comes in?

How can epic develop the engine if they are banned form using Apple development tools.

You don't need a developer account to download Apple's development tools.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#380

Post by dkonofalski »

Waterfall wrote: post #67
ericmay wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we don’t want control over our Nintendo switch or iPhone.

You don't want the full capabilities of your hardware you paid for? The Nvidia Jetson is the controllable version of the switch and it's much weaker. You don't want your switch to play games and be a hardware accelerator? You don't want the best silicon to run your own software?

The capabilities that I paid for are what I got. I did not pay for a device that lets me install whatever app or widget I want. I paid for an iPhone knowing exactly what it was and wasn't capable of and I paid for that specifically because I know that Apple doesn't need to dedicate resources to anything other than my device. Taking that away changes the entire ecosystem and all the benefits presented by it.

Look at Macs vs. PCs. There are entire industries dedicated to fixing the problems presented by the amount of options available on a PC. I don't want that. I want a device that I know works to do the things I need it to do. If the day comes where I need to do something I can't, I'll need to find another device.

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