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Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

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Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#421
post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think there are no black cops abusing their power, or that there are no white victims? It's hidden from you by the media because it doesn't fit the narrative of racist white cops abusing innocent black victims. Statistics paint a different picture. Given that there is a police response to crime, a white criminal is more likely to be shot by the police. I have seen plenty of public outcry over police violence w…

Do you think there are no black cops abusing their power, or that there are no white victims? I do not think that. Additionally, literally nobody is claiming that. Anywhere.

Not exactly, but pretty close: "it's very telling when (nearly always white) officers leap to unnecessarily violent tactics on (nearly always Black) victims"

You got that distorted perspective from the media bias.

It's just not that way. Some statistics even point the other way.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the case of the US, if the criminals have guns and the law abiding people don’t, where does that leave the law abiding people? It’s just like what happened when Reagan was the Governor of California. As soon as Black people started peacefully “exercising their second amendment rights”, both Reagan and the NRA were all for gun control. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act Even now while the liberals are fighti…

I mean there is quite a number of countries where regular police are prohibited from carrying firearms, or at least don't carry them anywhere so casually.

I bet those same countries don’t have the love affair with gun ownership and easy access as the US.

That still comes back to the same question - if the criminals have guns and neither law abiding citizens or the police have guns, where does that leave the law abiding citizens?

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#423
post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, same district. Different punishment. https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/09/03/police-pun...

Still, you elected a school board that would permit that difference, and you chose where to live. If telling parents gets students under control at one school, and it doesn't work at the other school, punishment will be different. You could get to that policy by trial and error, without any knowledge of the racial makeup of the student body.

Right.

A) Because someone who lived in my school district where rent was $600 a month - I had a house as part of the “gentrification” movement pre real estate bust - could pick up and move to a better school district like I did in the opposite side of the metro area over an hour away where the rent is now $2000/month.

B) if minorities are treated differently in the same school district, why would the majority care? Are you now going to argue that if you are a minority and face statistically unequal treatment by the criminal justice system you should move out of the city? state? country?

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#424
post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still, you elected a school board that would permit that difference, and you chose where to live. If telling parents gets students under control at one school, and it doesn't work at the other school, punishment will be different. You could get to that policy by trial and error, without any knowledge of the racial makeup of the student body.

Right. A) Because someone who lived in my school district where rent was $600 a month - I had a house as part of the “gentrification” movement pre real estate bust - could pick up and move to a better school district like I did in the opposite side of the metro area over an hour away where the rent is now $2000/month. B) if minorities are treated differently in the same school district, why would the majority care? A…

Things are different, yes, but I'm not seeing any racism on the part of the school administration or school board.

You are in "a high income district". You were in "lower income minority school district". I don't know the racial situation in your current district, though I could probably guess right. It's realistic, though not very nice, to imply that "minority" is the opposite of "high income".

For the discipline difference, it's enough that there is an income difference. That explains everything. There is no need to mention race.

The high-income people, of any race, care about education and discipline. Getting a kid to behave is usually as simple as telling the parents.

The low-income people, on average, don't give a damn. Telling a parent about bad behavior will just generate a tirade of insults. Calling the police works, so that is done.

It's unfair to the low-income people who aren't terrible. Well, life isn't fair. The group you associate with will determine how you are treated.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the '70s it feels like law enforcement (and juries to some extent) are informed by two movies much more than the Constitution and case law: Dirty Harry and Death Wish.

https://youtu.be/MF--2o71w44 This is a pretty good video analysing law enforcement and how it got to become the way it is through the analysis of Dirty Harry.

Interesting presentation

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#426
post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. A) Because someone who lived in my school district where rent was $600 a month - I had a house as part of the “gentrification” movement pre real estate bust - could pick up and move to a better school district like I did in the opposite side of the metro area over an hour away where the rent is now $2000/month. B) if minorities are treated differently in the same school district, why would the majority care? A…

Things are different, yes, but I'm not seeing any racism on the part of the school administration or school board. You are in "a high income district". You were in "lower income minority school district". I don't know the racial situation in your current district, though I could probably guess right. It's realistic, though not very nice, to imply that "minority" is the opposite of "high income". For the discipline di…

It's realistic, though not very nice, to imply that "minority" is the opposite of "high income".

Hint: Not only are “some of my best friends Black”, my parents, my wife, my children, and all of my family is too. Please don’t go all “woke” on me.

For the discipline difference, it's enough that there is an income difference. That explains everything. There is no need to mention race.

Studies show that it happens in the same district...

The high-income people, of any race, care about education and discipline. Getting a kid to behave is usually as simple as telling the parents.

Right because poor people don’t care about education.

The high-income people, of any race, care about education and discipline. Getting a kid to behave is usually as simple as telling the parents.

Uhh, this isn’t new. I went to a private school growing up. By definition if they were paying to go to the school I went to, they weren’t poor. I saw myself how much different the “bad” White kids were treated than the Black kids.

The group you associate with will determine how you are treated.

Oh that’s all I have to tell my six foot 3 son to do! Make sure he has one of his White friends with him (he usually does) when he hangs out so police won’t wonder what he’s doing in our part of town.

He was going to walk from school one night down the street to a Waffle House after a football game to meet his other classmates. His friend group is like the rainbow coalition, but this one night he wasn’t sure whether his non-Black friends were going to the game and walking down there with him. We told him if not, just take an Uber. Two Black kids walking down the street were an easy target for harassment. Not by other kids - kids aren’t as stupid as the older generation - they were worried about being harassed by the cops.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So I pulled over and got out, because of course I did; I saw no personal benefit in complicating my upcoming arrest with a chase. >not been easily "read" as an "upstanding citizen" type, I'd have been in a hell of a lot of trouble. This may have had more to do with with him waving you off than anything else. The type of people police are purportedly there to handle are not those who would do what you did. If this is…

Oh? And suppose he'd assumed when I got out of the car that I was going for a gun? They tell you these days that you do not ever get out of the car during a traffic stop unless instructed, and while this wasn't precisely a traffic stop, it wasn't all that far off - and I was far too frightened to be thinking about being careful with my hands. Or even to be thinking , really; I knew I was about to go to jail, and all…

>That officer made the judgment he did in a matter of seconds; as I noted in another comment here, I didn't have time to speak, or to take so much as a step toward the officer, before he waved me off - which was just as well in retrospect; God alone knows what I'd have said. But if any one aspect of the gestalt I presented had in any way varied from "harmless", he might well have drawn on me, and if he hadn't done that then he'd for damn sure have come over to see whether I was drunk or high or whatever the hell. And then he would have found my dope, and I would have gone to jail that night.

I don't see that as a "Thank God I'm White" outcome half as much as a "Thank God, he has something better to do!"

He could have been: -Covering the exits of a hiding place of a known dangerous offender -recon -signaling someone or waiting for a signal from someone on the down low -waiting on an informant -up to no good in a part of town he shouldn't even have been on the beat in, and really not looking to explain why he was even there to make an arrest. -on some other Op

To assume it was simply because you were white with no other data is really quite the knee jerk. Everything for a reason, and especially so with cops; a lone cop to boot.

Heck, you don't know. He might have been glad even if you were of a much darker complexion to see a brotha dressed for the office, pulling over and making every attempt to make himself easier to deal with rather than the alternative of a brotha in a trench coat/baggy clothes with a hand in his...oh shit!

Street wisdom is a thing. Supposedly, the better cops try to cultivate it amongst their numbers.

I get it's in vogue to assume that everyone is out to curbstomp the melanin enriched, but damn man. Cut the guy some slack. I mean he waved you off. Now I wish more cops extended the favor back, but, that's how it goes. Sometimes you get the ticket, sometimes you get let off the hook.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#428
post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things are different, yes, but I'm not seeing any racism on the part of the school administration or school board. You are in "a high income district". You were in "lower income minority school district". I don't know the racial situation in your current district, though I could probably guess right. It's realistic, though not very nice, to imply that "minority" is the opposite of "high income". For the discipline di…

It's realistic, though not very nice, to imply that "minority" is the opposite of "high income". Hint: Not only are “some of my best friends Black”, my parents, my wife, my children, and all of my family is too. Please don’t go all “woke” on me. For the discipline difference, it's enough that there is an income difference. That explains everything. There is no need to mention race. Studies show that it happens in the…

I'm nearly the opposite of “woke” but I try to be nice, and that wording reminded me of this awful Biden quote: “poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids”

As a general rule, yes, poor people don't care about education. That's typically a contributing factor to being poor. Exceptions are common.

Poor areas and poor families have a sort of cultural rot. Some have given up. Some see other things, often less honest or less productive, as an easier path to getting by in life. Some fear loss of friends if they choose a different path in life. In those areas, a kid who does well in school will be attacked by peers.

So at home, the parents are not reading to kids. The parents are not asking about homework. The parents are not taking away sources of entertainment that distract from success. The parents are not bothered by a non-A grade or in a panic over a below-B grade. Instead, the parents are creating chaos. The parents are getting arrested, coming to blows while drunk or high, and cranking up the TV volume. Very often, the families are broken. Sometimes the kids don't even know their father. All sorts of non-academic nonsense is glorified. The priorities are just all wrong. That is not an environment that promotes discipline, studying, or academic success.

If teachers are really treating black kids of equivalent income and wealth different from white kids, that is interesting. It's particularly interesting because teachers are among the most “woke” of all, commonly marching for BLM while accusing the MAGA crowd of being racist. In the name of BLM people have torched black neighborhoods (both business and residential) and torn down statues of people who fought against slavery, and the arrested people have included numerous teachers.

Life isn't fair, so some hints for your son: wear a nice suit, speak crisp standard English, and keep the grooming strictly traditional. Basically, adopt the mannerisms of a lawyer.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh? And suppose he'd assumed when I got out of the car that I was going for a gun? They tell you these days that you do not ever get out of the car during a traffic stop unless instructed, and while this wasn't precisely a traffic stop, it wasn't all that far off - and I was far too frightened to be thinking about being careful with my hands. Or even to be thinking , really; I knew I was about to go to jail, and all…

>That officer made the judgment he did in a matter of seconds; as I noted in another comment here, I didn't have time to speak, or to take so much as a step toward the officer, before he waved me off - which was just as well in retrospect; God alone knows what I'd have said. But if any one aspect of the gestalt I presented had in any way varied from "harmless", he might well have drawn on me, and if he hadn't done th…

Yeah, I mean, that all sounds perfectly reasonable in a vacuum. But like I said before, none of this happens in a vacuum.

So what you're really doing here is, you're asking me to choose which to give greater credence. On the one hand, your reasonable-sounding thoughts in a vacuum about some purely theoretical interaction of cop and "brotha" (really?)

On the other, my so far twenty years of living in the city of Baltimore. Granted, as as a white man. But nonetheless, with eyes, ears, acquaintances across pretty much the whole spectrum of skin tones - two decades living in a busy city, you have time to meet a lot of people, especially when you do what most white people in this town don't do and use public transit a lot - and a subscription to the Sun paper. Plus, on top of my own experience and that of other people who've shared theirs with me, the outcome of the recent DOJ investigation, which accurately found "widespread unconstitutional and discriminatory policing in the city" [1] and that "...the Baltimore City Police Department (BPD) had engaged in a pattern and practice of conduct that violates the First, Fourth, and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution, and certain provisions of federal statutory law." [2]

So, left to weigh all of that in one hand, and your vacuous theorizing in the other...look, I get that you're coming at this in good faith, and I respect that. But do you really need me to explain in detail how and why this effort falls so far short of the mark?

You're arguing essentially that Baltimore cops deserve the benefit of the doubt on questions of racial bias in policing. As I said, in a vacuum, sure, that seems reasonable. But, though I'm sure it's as tiresome to hear it repeated as it is to have to say it over and over again, none of this stuff happens in a vacuum. And the argument you've made is totally unable to survive outside one, because even the most cursory look at the recent history of policing in Baltimore is enough to see that the benefit of the doubt is in no way here deserved.

Even under the Trump administration, the US Department of Justice doesn't give Baltimore cops the benefit of the doubt. The Baltimore Sun journalists who follow, investigate, and report on the actions of police in this city, they don't give Baltimore cops the benefit of the doubt. [3] The folks I've known and whose stories I've heard in this town, for whom grossly excessive violence and abuse of power on the part of police have been a regular feature of life in their communities, they don't give Baltimore cops the benefit of the doubt, either. In light of all that, why should I? Why should anyone?

[1] https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.baltimoresun.com/news/crime...

[2] https://consentdecree.baltimorecity.gov/

[3] https://news.baltimoresun.com/cops-and-robbers/part-one/ https://news.baltimoresun.com/cops-and-robbers/part-two/ https://news.baltimoresun.com/cops-and-robbers/part-three/

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#430
post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's realistic, though not very nice, to imply that "minority" is the opposite of "high income". Hint: Not only are “some of my best friends Black”, my parents, my wife, my children, and all of my family is too. Please don’t go all “woke” on me. For the discipline difference, it's enough that there is an income difference. That explains everything. There is no need to mention race. Studies show that it happens in the…

I'm nearly the opposite of “woke” but I try to be nice, and that wording reminded me of this awful Biden quote: “poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids” As a general rule, yes, poor people don't care about education. That's typically a contributing factor to being poor. Exceptions are common. Poor areas and poor families have a sort of cultural rot. Some have given up. Some see other things,…

Life isn't fair, so some hints for your son: wear a nice suit, speak crisp standard English, and keep the grooming strictly traditional. Basically, adopt the mannerisms of a lawyer.

You did see the article I posted where Ving Rhames had five cops show up to his house pointing guns at him because they thought he was breaking into his own home? Should he have been wearing a suit in his own home?

No “acting White” doesn’t keep you from getting pulled over. My (step)son grew up in the burbs all of his life. No matter how “White” he talks he will still be treated with suspicious. So he is suppose to wear a suit everywhere? Do you tell your son to wear a suit when he is going to play basketball?

I know for a fact according to statistics I make more than twice the median in my county - the most affluent in the state and one of the top 25 in the country - the benefit of working for BigTech remotely while living in the south, I’m by no means rich - and yes we still get looked at suspiciously walking into our own homes.

So you mean all Black people have to do is wear a suit everywhere and they won’t get harassed? You have singlehandedly solved racism, police misconduct, the disenfranchisement of minorities, racial profiling, etc in one sentence!

And no, teachers come from their communities just like cops do. Do you really think they earn a degree and automatically become “woke”?

So poverty couldn’t possibly be caused by systemic racism, educational funding based on property taxes, the War on Drugs that habitually punishes minorities more than Whites for the same offenses that also makes it harder to get a job.

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