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Please read the paper before you comment

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Re: Please read the paper before you comment

#281
post #218
post #48

Some years ago, Ars Technica ran a story on guns. https://arstechnica.com/science/2011/04/guns-in-the-home-lot... About halfway through a one-page article was this quote. "If you have read this far, please mention Bananas in your comment below. We're pretty sure 90% of the respondants to this story won't even read it first." Sure enough, there were about 3 pages of comments before someone mentioned bananas. Read the…

I have done several experiments in Reddit. I post a link with a plausible title and credible looking 404 to credible domain with made up url. In a big subreddit you easily get 30 top level comments before first comment says that link does not work or is fake. Discussion goes on and on without pause. People treat the title as a writing prompt. One of the best writing prompts is pseudo-philosophical techno-bro life or…

I feel like a closer approximation of what’s going on is that there are perennial discussion topics that people want to participate in when they see an opportunity (e.g. “battery technology continues to improve, but it’s rare that we see the results trickling down to consumer electronics.”)

But just having a forum with “evergreen threads” where people talk continuously about perennial topics, doesn’t seem to work out very well, as people tend to get bored of topics when nobody’s saying anything new.

People might want to participate in them, but they won’t bother if there’s no expectation that their comment will be seen, let alone replied to. Nobody wants to post to a “stale” thread; it’s a waste of effort. And, in a vicious cycle, nobody wants to read other people’s posts on a “stale” thread either, because “thread necromancy” is almost never done by someone with something of value to contribute.

“Post a link and comment about it” sites have stumbled upon a fix for the problem of perennial discussion topics becoming "stale": by having individual threads focused on news articles relevant to these perennial topics, rallying points are created, giving people an excuse/justification to resume the larger ongoing topic of conversation within the comments of the individual news item, with the expectation that others will also be doing so.

The news itself is important to this process, as it offers a promise that fresh content (i.e. comments with a novel thought backing them) might be injected into the ongoing topic due to the news; thereby giving people a reason to check out this particular resurrection of the topic, even if they’ve read previous threads “about” it before.

But it really only has to be a promise that someone else is going to contribute novel thought to the conversation. Most people don’t want to be the source of the novel thought themselves. They want to participate on one of the existing sides of the topic, using what they already knew about the topic going in. They want to try out a “famous” debate for themselves. (And, if there's something new to know, they seemingly want to learn it by being told off by someone who has read the news, and so now knows something they don't.)

So the news article itself has about the same effect on the volume of commenting on a site like this, as public news regarding a company’s value has on the volume of trading in a market. A dose of “the real thing” certainly causes a surge—but so does the expectation of it, whether you actually end up getting the real thing or not.

And, just like speculating on a stock doesn’t require any insider knowledge, commenting under one of the “traditional” positions on such a perennial topic doesn’t require that you read the news that prompted the resurrection.

You can't have a stock market without real signal; and yet the market will always be composed mostly of traders with no access to (or desire to access) real signal. You can't have a perennial discussion without news; and yet the comments will always be composed mostly of people who have no desire to access the news.

Re: Please read the paper before you comment

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you don’t have the patience to digest the article, what give you the authority to write on the topic? ... your common sense, your sense of logic, your spidey sense to detect BS trained since long time ago, your previous experience, or the fact that you are yet a expert in the topic. Or just your curiosity and desire to participate in the conversation, that is the correct motivation. To take a chance to improve y…

My boss is very good at skimming through scientific papers. She's so well trained she will get the gust of a paper in a couple of seconds(maybe exaggerated). I guess there is the expertise in the field at play as well...

Read the abstract, intro, and conclusion. Scan the references.

Re: Please read the paper before you comment

#283
post #281
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have done several experiments in Reddit. I post a link with a plausible title and credible looking 404 to credible domain with made up url. In a big subreddit you easily get 30 top level comments before first comment says that link does not work or is fake. Discussion goes on and on without pause. People treat the title as a writing prompt. One of the best writing prompts is pseudo-philosophical techno-bro life or…

I feel like a closer approximation of what’s going on is that there are perennial discussion topics that people want to participate in when they see an opportunity (e.g. “battery technology continues to improve, but it’s rare that we see the results trickling down to consumer electronics.”) But just having a forum with “evergreen threads” where people talk continuously about perennial topics, doesn’t seem to work out…

[deleted]

Re: Please read the paper before you comment

#284

Good luck with that. For the record, I did read the article, but my life is not significantly richer (or poorer) for having done so. A classic technique for reading scientific papers, is to read the abstract, then the conclusion. If they motivate us to read the rest, then we do so. What I often do here, is first check the comments, and see if I want to go and read the OP. If I do that, I’ll generally read it all; unl…

Abstract and conclusion are useful for quickly determining what the authors want the takeaway to be, so they're better than journalism which can misconstrue even that. But the problem with reading just the abstract and conclusion is that you don't learn the methods the scientists used. Lots of science is junk due to bad methodology. Of course laypersons are not likely able to determine that even if they read the whol…

> you should never modify your world view in response to a scientific publication until many credible sources all say the same thing.

I'd say that should be a basic LifeHacker rule; regardless of whether or not it's scientific.

Completely agree.

Re: Please read the paper before you comment

#285
post #133
post #48

Some years ago, Ars Technica ran a story on guns. https://arstechnica.com/science/2011/04/guns-in-the-home-lot... About halfway through a one-page article was this quote. "If you have read this far, please mention Bananas in your comment below. We're pretty sure 90% of the respondants to this story won't even read it first." Sure enough, there were about 3 pages of comments before someone mentioned bananas. Read the…

Hence the way journalists love to misinform people: a headline and first paragraph that pushes their bias and narrative, while the facts that completely mitigate if not contradict the start of the article are buried somewhere in the middle. How to lie without lying, better than a legal footnote.

Bear in mind that headlines, at least, are frequently composed by editor rather than by the author of the article.

Re: Please read the paper before you comment

#286
post #218
post #48

Some years ago, Ars Technica ran a story on guns. https://arstechnica.com/science/2011/04/guns-in-the-home-lot... About halfway through a one-page article was this quote. "If you have read this far, please mention Bananas in your comment below. We're pretty sure 90% of the respondants to this story won't even read it first." Sure enough, there were about 3 pages of comments before someone mentioned bananas. Read the…

I have done several experiments in Reddit. I post a link with a plausible title and credible looking 404 to credible domain with made up url. In a big subreddit you easily get 30 top level comments before first comment says that link does not work or is fake. Discussion goes on and on without pause. People treat the title as a writing prompt. One of the best writing prompts is pseudo-philosophical techno-bro life or…

Happens here too, as others have pointed out.

Just yesterday an article that went in depth on all different kinds of atmospheric water harvesting was filled with comments on how this was 'debunked', despite some of the methods being used in practice (notably fog harvesting).

Moreover, the article was discussing emerging changes in the technology and the hurdles they would face (it's almost always energy!) but none of the comments seemed to discuss that at all.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24241529

Re: Please read the paper before you comment

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Read the paper? You're lucky if they read the article I WANT to read the paper. Most of the time the article gives no link to it though.

Same with articles about legislation. They rarely give the actual name or number of a bill or law.

Clay Johnson, author of "The Information Diet," wrote about this 10 years ago:

https://web.archive.org/web/20120205012403/http://www.inform...

It really made me much more conscious about seeking out and reading original sources, rather than relying on interpretations and summaries from journalists, bloggers, etc.

Re: Please read the paper before you comment

#288
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be fun to implement in election voting worldwide. I still don't get why you have to pass a test before driving, healing and working at your profession, but not before changing how your society works.

Historically, societies have given a pretty shitty deal to people who can't vote, and a much better deal to people who can. After all, if you're a politician, you want to get re-elected - so appeasing voters is much more important than appeasing people who can't vote. And appeasing demographics where 90% of people can vote is more important than appeasing demographics where 50% of people can vote. So any type of test…

I'm not saying that you have to be cool and smart to vote. Just ask them how much percent a candidate is going to increase/decrease in their program to be sure that a voter is able to at least read and understand the damn booklet before putting their [V] into the bin.

But a problem that you described could be addressed by counting invalid votes as 0.5 instead of 0. That would be fair — you didn't care to inform your decision, so it doesn't count as much as one's who did.

Re: Please read the paper before you comment

#289
post #286
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have done several experiments in Reddit. I post a link with a plausible title and credible looking 404 to credible domain with made up url. In a big subreddit you easily get 30 top level comments before first comment says that link does not work or is fake. Discussion goes on and on without pause. People treat the title as a writing prompt. One of the best writing prompts is pseudo-philosophical techno-bro life or…

Happens here too, as others have pointed out. Just yesterday an article that went in depth on all different kinds of atmospheric water harvesting was filled with comments on how this was 'debunked', despite some of the methods being used in practice (notably fog harvesting). Moreover, the article was discussing emerging changes in the technology and the hurdles they would face (it's almost always energy!) but none of…

Most of the discussion today is buried under "reactions". People just state their shallow opinion and fight over them. I hope new more coherent way of discussion emerges again.

In the Usenet there was custom of writing summaries. Article writer would direct the discussion.

> Authors of articles occasionally say that readers should reply by mail and they'll summarize. Accordingly, readers should do just that---reply via mail. Responding with a followup article to such an article defeats the intention of the author. She, in a few days, will post one article containing the highlights of the responses she received. By following up to the whole group, the author may not read what you have to say.

>When creating a summary of the replies to a post, try to make it as reader-friendly as possible. Avoid just putting all of the messages received into one big file. Rather, take some time and edit the messages into a form that contains the essential information that other readers would be interested in.

>Also, sometimes people will respond but request to remain anonymous (one example is the employees of a corporation that feel the information's not proprietary, but at the same time want to protect themselves from political backlash). Summaries should honor this request accordingly by listing the From: address as anonymous or (Address withheld by request).

https://legacy.cs.indiana.edu/docproject/zen/zen-1.0_6.html#...

Re: Please read the paper before you comment

#290
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have done several experiments in Reddit. I post a link with a plausible title and credible looking 404 to credible domain with made up url. In a big subreddit you easily get 30 top level comments before first comment says that link does not work or is fake. Discussion goes on and on without pause. People treat the title as a writing prompt. One of the best writing prompts is pseudo-philosophical techno-bro life or…

Well, I don't comment on Reddit without reading the article, but I notice that, on contentious topics, by the time I've read the article there are 2000 comments already and there's not much point posting a comment after that. If you want somebody to read your comment, you have to post on something nobody cares about, or post REALLY fast.

That's a great point. I guess people are really just looking to play the status game by showing up first.
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