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How to Write in Plain English

plainenglish.co.uk

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Re: How to Write in Plain English

#211

Post by lallysingh »

omnicognate wrote: post #46
nicbou wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't make your readers hold parts of the sentence in their head. Reorder or split sentences until it can be avoided. In other words, use a really small buffer. "You must fill form 331 unless you are over 60 years old, in which case you must fill form 445." "You must fill form 331. If you are over 60 years old, you must fill 445 instead." "If you are over 60 years old, you must fill form 445. Otherwise, you must fill…

Overflowing that buffer really does feel like a stack overflow, too. Your whole mental state just suddenly disappears in a puff of smoke. This resplendent sentence in the Vulkan spec did it to me the other day: The layout of subresources of images on other logical devices that are bound to VkDeviceMemory objects associated with the same underlying memory resources as external memory objects on the lost device becomes…

That's a lot of qualified noun phrases. This should just be an s-expression. It's already one, honestly, but without the right parenthesis.

(becomes (qualified (layout of subresources of images on other logical devices) (bound . (same-memory-resources (VkDeviceMemory objects) (external memory objects on the lost device)))) VK_IMAGE_LAYOUT_UNDEFINED)

Will natural-language tools eventually help us turn these puddles of nouns into reasonable sentences?

Re: How to Write in Plain English

#212

Post by MauranKilom »

nicbou wrote: post #160
aazaa wrote: post #148

The article doesn't mention the way that word placement changes the meaning of sentences. From a video I recently saw but can't recall, consider these sentences: - Although John is a nice guy, he beats his dog. - Although John beats his dog, he's a nice guy. - John is a nice guy, but he beats his dog. - John beats his dog, but he's a nice guy. These are all plain English sentences, but will be interpreted quite diffe…

> For example, readers tend to latch onto the last part of a sentence. Everything before "but" is often bullshit. "I'm not racist, but". "No offense, but".

https://xkcd.com/2146/

Re: How to Write in Plain English

#213

Post by polimind »

"It's faster to write."

Totally disagree with this point. Orwell explains how the exact opposite is true in his "Politics and the English Language." Vague writing requires only vague thought. Clear writing requires clear thought (as well as editing), and clear thought takes effort. As a writer, you might have to spend more time actually typing unclear and convoluted garbage, but you can basically turn off your brain and just start vomiting words onto the page. To do that asks much less of you than writing clearly does. (Classic example is the Pascal quote: "I apologize for the length of my letter. I didn't have time to write a shorter one.")

Re: How to Write in Plain English

#214

Post by aclimatt »

nicbou wrote: post #116
aclimatt wrote: post #100

I'd guess (almost) everyone wishes everyone else wrote in plain language. But there's potentially a more fundamental reason people don't. bambax in another comment pointed out the power of ambiguity, and that's one of the reasons especially in legal / government, but there's another. Language, specifically jargon, is an expression of culture. It's an expression of power, education, experience, or lack thereof. It's a…

There is a place and a time for culture. Your electric bill is not one of them. I disagree with your last paragraph. Speaking clearly and decisively is a good thing, and people will usually appreciate it. People become famous for speaking clearly. I remember some general made the rounds for his plain, no-nonsense COVID-19 address. I wish I could find it again. I can only think of this scene right now. https://youtu.b…

I'd say that actually is my point though. If you're a high-ranking official giving a speech, speaking the same language as the general population will make you well-received and well-understood by using the language of your constituents.

Speaking a language people understand is decisively a good thing, and what people understand varies dramatically by situation. "Plain English" isn't always the answer. (Also hierarchy -- when you're on top, you get to set the tone.)

If you want to be part of a club, you need to sound like a member. Unless you own the club.

Re: How to Write in Plain English

#215

Post by bonoboTP »

greentimer wrote: post #210

"Most experts would agree that clear writing should have an average sentence length of 15 to 20 words." This quote is so preposterous it almost made me want to stop reading the article. Different types of writing should have different sentence lengths. I'm quite sure the sentence length for a math textbook and a Clorox ad should be different. There's a reason it's not common practice to measure one's average sentence…

The page has many useful tips on how to avoid writing in a bureaucratic, distant, formal, long-winded style.

I see lots of text daily that fit the antipatterns mentioned in the article. Sometimes the writer doesn't know better. Sometimes they internalized some prescriptive hard and fast rules that are supposedly mandatory for pro writing (no split infinitive! No sentence started wit "so"!).

But more often, I think, obscure and pretentious writing is a feature for the writer. It creates distance, formality, passive aggressively signals "leave me alone" and "you are a small cog in a powerful machine", "we have authority over you", it allows for better plausible deniability, and CYA. Or said in a different way from the writers point of view: if I wrote this too plainly, more people will feel compelled to write to me as if I was their buddy and will guide them through everything. By writing formally, I put up a wall and make my life easier. People will actually have to take time to decipher it all, so its also a natural filter for attentive readers.

Re: How to Write in Plain English

#217

Post by grugagag »

kwoff wrote: post #209
omnicognate wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overflowing that buffer really does feel like a stack overflow, too. Your whole mental state just suddenly disappears in a puff of smoke. This resplendent sentence in the Vulkan spec did it to me the other day: The layout of subresources of images on other logical devices that are bound to VkDeviceMemory objects associated with the same underlying memory resources as external memory objects on the lost device becomes…

We have a small number of "slots" of short term memory. I wonder how smart we'd be if we had twice as many slots.

I don’t think we’d see the difference if everybody had roughly the same number. Ive seen people who have a few more slots than average and it appears quite inpressive, they keep on stacking up when I already overflow. It’s probably got to do with how they chunk their information though.. But a piece of paper and a pencil can do wonders

Re: How to Write in Plain English

#218

Post by greenie_beans »

it's very hard to write well.

one of the best pieces of writing advice i ever heard:

your sentences should make sense enough to be taken out of a paragraph and put on a new line for each sentence.

if your sentences make sense on a line-by-line basis, then your writing is more understandable.

Re: How to Write in Plain English

#219

Post by C4stor »

greentimer wrote: post #210

"Most experts would agree that clear writing should have an average sentence length of 15 to 20 words." This quote is so preposterous it almost made me want to stop reading the article. Different types of writing should have different sentence lengths. I'm quite sure the sentence length for a math textbook and a Clorox ad should be different. There's a reason it's not common practice to measure one's average sentence…

As a non-native english writer, I found the article quite good.

It reminds good practices for clear communication, which I wish everyone applied in my org.

Notably around me, people excessively use passive forms.

So, you weren't interested, but it doesn't mean it interests noone.

Re: How to Write in Plain English

#220

Post by [deleted] »

greentimer wrote: post #210

"Most experts would agree that clear writing should have an average sentence length of 15 to 20 words." This quote is so preposterous it almost made me want to stop reading the article. Different types of writing should have different sentence lengths. I'm quite sure the sentence length for a math textbook and a Clorox ad should be different. There's a reason it's not common practice to measure one's average sentence…

[deleted]
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