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How to Write in Plain English

plainenglish.co.uk

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Re: How to Write in Plain English

#181

Post by NKosmatos »

russfink wrote: post #172
kwhitefoot wrote: post #132

> You may not photocopy any guide or pass on electronic copies without our permission. Why do people bother making unenforceable restrictions?

Bump. Yes, why the ominous copyright? It's plain silly.

I think the best (worst?) copyright notice is the following from Ken Rockwell[0]: "As this page is copyrighted and formally registered, it is unlawful to make copies, especially in the form of printouts for personal use. If you wish to make a printout for personal use, you are granted one-time permission only if you PayPal me $5.00 per printout or part thereof. Thank you!"

[0] https://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/fart.htm

Re: How to Write in Plain English

#182

Post by Joker_vD »

ThePadawan wrote: post #124
dgellow wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't make your readers hold parts of the sentence in their head. Funny to read this as I'm learning German! In German the main verb of a sentence has to be at the end depending on the context (e.g: if it is a question, or following some prepositions such as "dass"). Let's say we want to build a question, it will be constructed this way: 1. question marker (such as "Was", "Wo", "Warum", etc) 2. subject 3. other det…

I had a Brazilian roommate who could second this. He (jokingly) complained this was the absolute worst when dealing with split-proposition-verbs: E. g. "aufgeben" translated part-by-part is "upgive", so "to surrender" or "to give up" in English. However, in sth. like 3rd position singular, the form would be "er gibt auf" ("he gives up"). But in German, the object goes between "gives" and "up". Thus, my roommate menti…

Well, English too has some interesting ideas where to put prepositions in the sentence, that is, turn them basically into postpositions. For example, "Which basket did you put that exquisite marble figurine in?"

The "in" is logically related to "which basket", so one would expect that the question would actually be *"In which basket...", but nope, that's rustic and colloquial at best. I suspect it's because of the word inversion in questions, since in dependent clauses the order is reasonable: "I put the figurine in this woven concrete basket over there".

Re: How to Write in Plain English

#183

Post by segmondy »

aazaa wrote: post #148

The article doesn't mention the way that word placement changes the meaning of sentences. From a video I recently saw but can't recall, consider these sentences: - Although John is a nice guy, he beats his dog. - Although John beats his dog, he's a nice guy. - John is a nice guy, but he beats his dog. - John beats his dog, but he's a nice guy. These are all plain English sentences, but will be interpreted quite diffe…

Pronunciation changes meaning too.

"i didn't say he stole the money." this doesn't say much, but when a word is stressed takes on a new meaning, so one should be careful to capture the stress in writing.

I didn't say he stole the money. - someone else said it, not me

i DIDN'T say he stole the money. - you think I said it, it wasn't me.

i didn't SAY he stole the money. - I never said such a thing, might have suggested it's a possibility, but never said it.

i didn't say HE stole the money. - I said someone else stole it.

i didn't say he STOLE the money. - I might have said he took it, like borrowed, but definitely didn't say he stole it, who knows?

i didn't say he stole THE money. - not the money in question, another money.

i didn't say he stole the MONEY. - he stole something else besides the money.

So the same sentence can mean something very different and to really make sure the reader get's the meaning, will need more context than in spoken language.

Re: How to Write in Plain English

#184

Post by wenc »

aazaa wrote: post #148

The article doesn't mention the way that word placement changes the meaning of sentences. From a video I recently saw but can't recall, consider these sentences: - Although John is a nice guy, he beats his dog. - Although John beats his dog, he's a nice guy. - John is a nice guy, but he beats his dog. - John beats his dog, but he's a nice guy. These are all plain English sentences, but will be interpreted quite diffe…

Yes, inversion is often a useful trick.

Harsh: We really like your proposal but we don’t have the resources.

Soft: We don’t have the resources, but we really like your proposal.

Another trick is to not just say, "I disagree" when you disagree. Validate first, then express disagreement. For example: "I hear you and see where you’re coming from. I have a different view." This lessens defensiveness.

This might all sound very silly, but these are actually brain hacks in order to have constructive conversations. Depending on your culture, you might have a different sensitivity to direct speech. If you're sensitive, your lower brain (fight-or-flight mechanism) is activated when you perceive someone is critical toward you. The idea of rearranging language is to defuse that lower brain (fight-or-flight) tendency and move the conversation to the upper brain (executive function), so instead of fighting at a pure feelings level, ideas can be exchanged (and disagreements can be had) at a more abstract level.

Re: How to Write in Plain English

#185

Post by naringas »

lxe wrote: post #9

Don't follow the 'active verbs' rule too much. There's a limit to it, especially when writing technical documents. If it sounds unnatural, or when you have an implied subject that's an important part of the thing you're trying to convey, just use passive voice.

indeed not.

There's a youtube video with Steven Pinker explaining how passive verbs often improve the flow of writing thus increasing legibility

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV5J6BfToSw

Re: How to Write in Plain English

#186

Post by quietbritishjim »

jariel wrote: post #95
dijit wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Ping me” really threw me for a loop the first time I heard a non-tech say it in an obvious non-tech way. It literally has no other meaning outside of the ICMP echo utility; and the onomatopoeia of hitting glass. How did it enter the Business world?

Ping comes from submarine sonar - not the networking world. Everyone of a certain age will have seen a half dozen submarine WW2 or Cold War films so regular people do have context. And there's nothing wrong with it. 'Learnings' is an odd word but it actually makes sense because there are no perfect substitutes. 'Insights' isn't quite it.

A possible alternative to "learning" is "lesson". The problem with "lesson" is that it can have two meanings:

(a) a formal lecture given by a qualified person to a class;

(b) a fact that you learned from any person or even just a situation you were in.

"Lesson" in the sense (b) is a direct substitute for "a learning", but I have to admit a few people might sometimes interpret it as (a) and be confused. But it depends on the context - if a project report has a "lessons learnt" heading I don't think any reader is going to expect that means meaning (a).

Re: How to Write in Plain English

#187

Post by [deleted] »

quietbritishjim wrote: post #171
SagelyGuru wrote: post #154

Am I the only one who finds The List of Words to Avoid rather depressing? I mean I get what they are trying to do: minimise the number of letters. Yet, language is also about variety and not being really, really dull. Perhaps also about not treating your readers like idiots? Most of those slightly longer words look like perfectly legitimate alternatives in that regard.

It would be depressing if they were suggesting this style of language for literature, but they are absolutely not suggesting that. They are suggesting it for bureaucratic situations, like a utility company sending a bill or a goverrment body issuing notes about how to fill in a driving licence application form. A utility bill is never going to be a thrill to read, so if using simpler language means that some recipien…

[deleted]

Re: How to Write in Plain English

#188

Post by sah2ed »

pbronez wrote: post #117
searchableguy wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Government experts often say that because they’re writing technical or complex content for a specialist audience, they do not need to use plain English. This is wrong. > Research shows that higher literacy people prefer plain English because it allows them to understand the information as quickly as possible. > For example, research into use of specialist legal language in legal documents found: > 80% of people pre…

This makes total sense to me. Simple language makes room for complex ideas.

> This makes total sense to me. Simple language makes room for complex ideas.

My takeaway is slightly different: simple words (familiar) are easier to digest than big words (unfamiliar) because familiar words will be parsed very quickly for most people than unfamiliar words.

I prefer to use the categorization of “familiar” vs “unfamiliar” because the categorization of a word as “big” or “simple” depends largely on the reading ability of the person making the assessment.

Re: How to Write in Plain English

#189

Post by DrBazza »

whack wrote: post #83
DrBazza wrote: post #56

English vs. business English. Pre-boarding is just boarding. Pre-booking is just booking. Pre-prefixing everything. Sigh. "Please revert" - you mean 'reply', not 'return to a former state'. "Ping me" - ugh. And my favourite.... "Learnings" - you mean lessons. "What drivings have you been on?" ... "What journeys have you been on?"

The definition of "revert" has evolved, and even dictionaries are starting to acknowledge its alternative meaning as "reply". See: https://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06FOB-onlanguage... I personally love "ping me". It's even shorter and more punchy, compared to "message me". Language evolves. Shakespeare would find our English today bewildering. Instead of complaining about it, I find it most helpful to keep…

Not sure why you've been downvoted. You're 100% correct. Language evolves. And old duffers like me, don't.
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