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How to Write in Plain English

plainenglish.co.uk

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Re: How to Write in Plain English

#161

Post by lexicality »

DrBazza wrote: post #108
rvba wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that "pre-booking" means that you input all the available data related to a document into some computer system, but you do not finalize & accept the document yet -> so some of the data can still be changed in the future without consequence (for example: when some issue is explained with a supplier). Pre-booking is the initial step before a complete booking.

Agreed. Except when it isn't :) Ticket agencies use 'pre-booking' to book the first tiny tranche of tickets. And HR departments seem to love 'pre-authorization' to get... authorization for holidays, or purchasing, and so on.

That's not entirely unreasonable, pre in this case trying to make explicit "ask me about this well ahead of time".

eg you can make on the day bookings or call up HR to say you've got dave from forklifts incorporated on the phone and you need the company card immediately.

Re: How to Write in Plain English

#163

Post by alexpetralia »

nicbou wrote: post #160
aazaa wrote: post #148

The article doesn't mention the way that word placement changes the meaning of sentences. From a video I recently saw but can't recall, consider these sentences: - Although John is a nice guy, he beats his dog. - Although John beats his dog, he's a nice guy. - John is a nice guy, but he beats his dog. - John beats his dog, but he's a nice guy. These are all plain English sentences, but will be interpreted quite diffe…

> For example, readers tend to latch onto the last part of a sentence. Everything before "but" is often bullshit. "I'm not racist, but". "No offense, but".

Is it? It seems like a qualified statement which emphasizes the unequal weights of two opposing views.

How about:

"There are multiple ways to solve this problem, but this is best one."

Isn't that better than:

"This is how we should solve it"?

I see no problem with qualifying an assertion with a lesser weight.

Re: How to Write in Plain English

#164

Post by SagelyGuru »

morley wrote: post #158
SagelyGuru wrote: post #154

Am I the only one who finds The List of Words to Avoid rather depressing? I mean I get what they are trying to do: minimise the number of letters. Yet, language is also about variety and not being really, really dull. Perhaps also about not treating your readers like idiots? Most of those slightly longer words look like perfectly legitimate alternatives in that regard.

Your point is addressed earlier in the article: It's not about banning new words, killing off long words or promoting completely perfect grammar. Nor is it about letting grammar slip. A good complement to this article is Orwell's "Politics and the English Language," which talks about how people might use long, complex words (like those in the Words to Avoid list) to seem more important. That's the other side of the "…

"It is not bout killing off long words" rings rather hollow when it is followed by a list of longer words to replace with shorter ones. It is not the fault of the innocent words that someone may have misused them to feel important.

But let us go deeper and ask: how did importance become associated with longer words? Was it perhaps because important and educated people used them, since they carried more precise and specific meanings?

Re: How to Write in Plain English

#165

Post by nicbou »

SagelyGuru wrote: post #154

Am I the only one who finds The List of Words to Avoid rather depressing? I mean I get what they are trying to do: minimise the number of letters. Yet, language is also about variety and not being really, really dull. Perhaps also about not treating your readers like idiots? Most of those slightly longer words look like perfectly legitimate alternatives in that regard.

It depends on what you need to achieve.

Les Cowboys Fringants display the full colours of Canadian french in their songs, but they're creating art.

The government needs to tell people of all backgrounds that they must do something or face serious consequences. They are not creating art, but communicating important information to busy, confused people.

Re: How to Write in Plain English

#166

Post by secondcoming »

throwawaylolx wrote: post #87
dreen wrote: post #14

Heres a great list from GOV.UK of the kind of words to avoid when using Plain English: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/style-guide/a-to-z-of-gov-uk-sty...

I like how they banned "empower" with no added explanation while the Rust team was bending backwards to argue that there is nothing wrong with the word when, in 2018, they controversially changed their motto to "A language empowering everyone to build reliable and efficient software." ( https://rust-lang.org/ ) Obviously gov.uk material is of a different nature than that of a corporate motto, but it speaks to the exa…

What's wrong with 'empower'?

Re: How to Write in Plain English

#167

Post by strogonoff »

BurningFrog wrote: post #150
strogonoff wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Love it. Check out “Writing for GOV.UK”[0] for more guidance. Among interesting things to note that they strongly discourage FAQs (“if you write content by starting with user needs, you will not need to use FAQs … they are usually not frequently asked questions by the public, but important information dumped by the content editor”). The concept of FAQ has long been a pet peeve of mine, although I do believe the “ques…

A useful FAQ list must consist of questions that are actually often asked. They represent discovered problems in the text the author didn't foresee.

> They represent discovered problems in the text the author didn't foresee.

Indeed. If certain questions are asked frequently, likely the information is not presented with audience’s actual needs in mind. Content should be updated, possibly rewritten. Putting up a FAQ shows content editor washing their hands of that responsibility.

I also find it a little rude, like “Welcome to the group of people who, despite our best efforts, didn’t manage to understand what we wrote! Here are some questions you lot keep asking…” (Of course, usually it’s not that, but rather a half-hearted attempt to be helpful and/or reduce the amount of people getting in touch with questions.)

Re: How to Write in Plain English

#168

Post by throwanem »

rimliu wrote: post #140
throwanem wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might not know it, but "thousand" is not one of the ten hundred most usual English words! https://github.com/aaron-em/ten-hundred-mode.el

I think this is English specific and could do more harm than good for someone with a different background. E.g. in my language counting anything > 1000 in hundreds would sound very weird.

"Ten hundred", "twenty hundred", etc. sound very weird in English, too, despite "eleven hundred", "twelve hundred", etc. being commonplace in at least the American dialect.

That said, "ten hundred" is hardly the weirdest thing about English prose written in ten-hundred-mode...

Re: How to Write in Plain English

#169

Post by nicbou »

bambax wrote: post #75

I frequently receive letters from various European administrations, France, Germany, Poland, the UK. Letters from HMRC are amazing. The first time it is really shocking, but after a while it's almost a pleasure to be asked to send money to the Queen! But I think one of the reason bureaucracies prefer writing jargon and long winded sentences is to protect their influence and necessity. If you write in plain English (o…

The ones from German bureaucrats are simply horrible.

Re: How to Write in Plain English

#170

Post by wlll »

aazaa wrote: post #148

The article doesn't mention the way that word placement changes the meaning of sentences. From a video I recently saw but can't recall, consider these sentences: - Although John is a nice guy, he beats his dog. - Although John beats his dog, he's a nice guy. - John is a nice guy, but he beats his dog. - John beats his dog, but he's a nice guy. These are all plain English sentences, but will be interpreted quite diffe…

I'm struggling to read those as being different. UK English reader.
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