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2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

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Re: 2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

#21

Post by eatingCake »

URSpider94 wrote: post #12
ed25519FUUU wrote: post #4

“Withstand” is a funny word. Forests need fire. Fire is destructive to the organs (flora and fauna) but beneficial to the organism (a forest). I’m thinking of all of the sequoia seeds, now germinated from the fire[1], that will sprout next year into full sunlight that hasn’t touched the forest floor in hundreds of years. It is sad though that it’s also destructive to the lives of so many people. May everyone find saf…

Um, there aren’t any giant sequoias in the areas impacted by these fires. The range for giant sequoias is a few hundred miles to the East, on the slopes of the Sierras. They don’t grow in the coastal mountains.

FYI, 12,000 acres are on fire in the Sequoia National Forest, where giant sequoias grow.

https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/7048/

Re: 2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

#22

Post by zorpner »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #19
samcheng wrote: post #8

A hundred miles north of this fire, at the Armstrong Redwood State Park, there is another lightning-caused wildfire that is burning through an old growth grove. That fire is burning through the forest floor only, and is significantly less dangerous. The 1400-year-old Armstrong tree, and park buildings, have been protected, while the fire is free to burn through the surrounding undergrowth. Everyone involved seems to…

> The 1400-year-old Armstrong tree The bare fact that a tree is 1400 years old is pretty strong evidence that it's unlikely to be harmed by a fire.

The global temperature anomaly is already out-of-range for not only the lifetime of this tree, but much of its evolutionary history. We are entering an out-of-context situation for a large portion of the earth's extant lifeforms.

Re: 2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

#23

Post by hardmath123 »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #5

Redwoods not only survive the fires, they tend to proliferate afterwards. After lesser trees have been cleared out by the fires, redwood seedlings take root. Redwoods also thrive in low rain areas that are prone to fog because they benefit from the fog in a way that other trees do not. I once suggested redwoods as an alternate or additional metaphor for giftedness re Stephanie Tolan's "Is it a cheetah?" https://www.s…

I believe the heat of a wildfire is literally the trigger for the cone to open up and release the redwood's seeds! (I don't know the exact mechanism for this, though.)

Re: 2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

#24

Post by khuey »

hardmath123 wrote: post #23
DoreenMichele wrote: post #5

Redwoods not only survive the fires, they tend to proliferate afterwards. After lesser trees have been cleared out by the fires, redwood seedlings take root. Redwoods also thrive in low rain areas that are prone to fog because they benefit from the fog in a way that other trees do not. I once suggested redwoods as an alternate or additional metaphor for giftedness re Stephanie Tolan's "Is it a cheetah?" https://www.s…

I believe the heat of a wildfire is literally the trigger for the cone to open up and release the redwood's seeds! (I don't know the exact mechanism for this, though.)

You're thinking of the coast redwood's relative, the giant sequoia. Fire dries out the cones causing the seeds to release.

Re: 2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

#25

Post by samcheng »

zorpner wrote: post #22
thaumasiotes wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The 1400-year-old Armstrong tree The bare fact that a tree is 1400 years old is pretty strong evidence that it's unlikely to be harmed by a fire.

The global temperature anomaly is already out-of-range for not only the lifetime of this tree, but much of its evolutionary history. We are entering an out-of-context situation for a large portion of the earth's extant lifeforms.

Agreed.

Also, these trees must now survive a hundred years of aggressive fire suppression, which (ironically) allows fuel to build up to dangerous levels.

Either way, these trees are a lot safer after surviving a fire.

Re: 2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

#26

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

zorpner wrote: post #22
thaumasiotes wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The 1400-year-old Armstrong tree The bare fact that a tree is 1400 years old is pretty strong evidence that it's unlikely to be harmed by a fire.

The global temperature anomaly is already out-of-range for not only the lifetime of this tree, but much of its evolutionary history. We are entering an out-of-context situation for a large portion of the earth's extant lifeforms.

You're misunderstanding something here. The global temperature anomaly is substantially smaller than even day to day variations in temperature, and completely dwarfed by seasonal or day-night variations. The problems expected from climate change are almost entirely systemic - few individual lifeforms will end up in an out-of-context situation.

In this specific case, a 1400 year old tree will surely have seen some wildfires before.

Re: 2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

#27

Post by chrisco255 »

zorpner wrote: post #22
thaumasiotes wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The 1400-year-old Armstrong tree The bare fact that a tree is 1400 years old is pretty strong evidence that it's unlikely to be harmed by a fire.

The global temperature anomaly is already out-of-range for not only the lifetime of this tree, but much of its evolutionary history. We are entering an out-of-context situation for a large portion of the earth's extant lifeforms.

California has been subject to century long droughts in the not too distant past (about 1000 years ago).

"BEGINNING about 1,100 years ago, what is now California baked in two droughts, the first lasting 220 years and the second 140 years. Each was much more intense than the mere six-year dry spells that afflict modern California from time to time, new studies of past climates show. The findings suggest, in fact, that relatively wet periods like the 20th century have been the exception rather than the rule in California for at least the last 3,500 years, and that mega-droughts are likely to recur."

https://www.nytimes.com/1994/07/19/science/severe-ancient-dr...

What's amazing is that many of these trees survived that. And that modern humans think modern California is "normal".

Re: 2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

#29

Post by remote_phone »

So many on HN were talking about how these fires were so much more intense than the other fires, and that probably Big Basin would be gone forever, etc.

Just another example of how people especially on HN read a few articles and then think they are experts on the topic.

The ancient redwoods survived and will thrive, as fully expected. It’s not that forest fires are great, but it’s a natural process of life and people thinking “this time it’s different” are usually wrong.

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