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Birth and Death of Microsoft Bing

myprasanna.posterous.com

101–110 of 130 posts

Re: Birth and Death of Microsoft Bing

#101

Perhaps a bit OT, but... The post seemed to be riddled with formatting and grammar errors. This rubbed my old-school English sensibilities at first, but then I began to enjoy its rough feel. After all, it's a post about how people who worked tirelessly to bring a product to market were shipping things while the rest of Microsoft slept. The story very clearly describes a dichotomy in Microsoft's culture between proces…

I'm the author of this post and by no means I expected this to be on the top of HN today. It was a surprise. I din't do any good editing on this, since it was my personal blog and I had sent to Michael Arrington, who wanted to edit/publish it. For some reason, he backed out at the last moment and it din't make it to TC. Welcome to the world of citizen journalism. Sorry about the typos/errors. I'm looking into this no…

[deleted]

Re: Birth and Death of Microsoft Bing

#102
"The report of my death was an exaggeration." -- Mark Twain

I was having a look at Terabyte drives in Best Buy yesterday, and while wondering how well a model might work with Linux, I realized, now the display computers actually have internet capability, I should be able to look it up right there in the store! So, I wander over to a convenient laptop, kick it out of screensaver mode, start up the browser, and plug in the product name. Only after I hit the search button did I notice WHAT service I was using. Added bonus: Google was NOT an option.

I'll believe that Bing is dead when it isn't the default search engine in the default browser on the default operating system at the default computer store.

Re: Birth and Death of Microsoft Bing

#103

I don't know that Bing has "failed" yet, but I highly doubt it'll be anything other than one amongst many in the pack in 5 years. Microsoft has always been good at the pivotal turnaround. Recognizing when a key moment was on the wind, mustering together a tremendous effort, making a good number of smart decisions and putting out a solid anchor product that (re)cements their position in the industry and reinvigorates…

> "I don't know that Bing has "failed" yet, but I highly doubt it'll be anything other than one amongst many in the pack in 5 years." For Microsoft, having a full featured reliable non-core product with measurable market share is a success because it allows Microsoft to offer vertical integration without the specter of anti-trust allegations - imagine the howling in DC and Europe if Bing controlled 70% of search (nev…

I'm neither pro-Microsoft nor anti-Microsoft, but I must say that your take on this piece seems painfully, almost illogically slanted in favor of Microsoft.

>"For Microsoft, having a full featured reliable non-core product with measurable market share is a success because it allows Microsoft to offer vertical integration without the specter of anti-trust allegations"

One might rephrase at least part of this as, "For Microsoft, being a small fish in a large pond is a technicality that can be used as a distraction from what some view as its monopolistic goals."

>"Bing's robustness helps Microsoft sell software and services, while it's modest market share keeps infrastructure costs lower and Microsoft's core revenue stream coming from areas other than search reduces the pressure to game search algorithms towards their advertisers in order to increase revenue in the way that Google does."

Again rephrasing, "Bing was never meant to be a search engine, but rather a cheap, tame excuse for putting up a billboard about whatever Microsoft wants to sell."

>"What the article shows is not that Microsoft is inept, but rather that they are able to create an internal unit with many elements of a startup, scale that unit massively, and then transition it into a solid corporate structure capable of surviving over the long term"

That may in fact be the case, but it seems a rather forced spin on what the article's author seemed to be saying. To me, the narrative was about how Microsoft was large enough for a relatively small, startup-like project to remain below the radar until it began to develop some degree of success. At that half-baked point, it was noticed by the upper power bureaucracy, seized, and frozen before it could develop into a fully successful product. In an agile environment, this would have been fine (because the product wouldn't have been frozen), but since Microsoft is anything but agile, Bing became more of a legacy product than a living, growing project.

Of course, according to your earlier interpretation, this was all part of the Microsoft plan -- a pivot from "search engine" to "multiple distractions in the guise of a search engine."

Re: Birth and Death of Microsoft Bing

#104

Perhaps a bit OT, but... The post seemed to be riddled with formatting and grammar errors. This rubbed my old-school English sensibilities at first, but then I began to enjoy its rough feel. After all, it's a post about how people who worked tirelessly to bring a product to market were shipping things while the rest of Microsoft slept. The story very clearly describes a dichotomy in Microsoft's culture between proces…

I'm the author of this post and by no means I expected this to be on the top of HN today. It was a surprise. I din't do any good editing on this, since it was my personal blog and I had sent to Michael Arrington, who wanted to edit/publish it. For some reason, he backed out at the last moment and it din't make it to TC. Welcome to the world of citizen journalism. Sorry about the typos/errors. I'm looking into this no…

Was this get modified? I didn't notice anything reading through.

Re: Birth and Death of Microsoft Bing

#105
post #82

This is tangential, but somehow related: My level of frustration Redmond has reached epic levels. My company spends thousands of dollars a week managing advertising campaigns on Adcenter. They have an API which has been nothing but issues, but given the breadth of our advertising base it's absolutely necessary that we use it. Today we have entered day number FIVE of an outage in which the API (at least one critical p…

I assume you're using the REST API? While they try and roll out a fix, have you tried to use the adCenter Desktop to at least somewhat manage the ads?

That might work if adcenter desktop was actually stable!

Re: Birth and Death of Microsoft Bing

#106
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matt, How long would you estimate, for a search changelist to hit the production at Google? I've got friends working there. Prepare to be surprised.

I think you've got a bit of a surprise in store for you, too, when you find out what Matt does for a living.

Got it :)

I still know for a fact that, it takes at-least a month on average, for a search change list to reach production. Would you disagree Matt?

Re: Birth and Death of Microsoft Bing

#107
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you're using the REST API? While they try and roll out a fix, have you tried to use the adCenter Desktop to at least somewhat manage the ads?

That might work if adcenter desktop was actually stable!

Unfortunately it's still technically in 'beta' so it intermittently has issues. I still use it everyday, though.

Re: Birth and Death of Microsoft Bing

#108

I don't know that Bing has "failed" yet, but I highly doubt it'll be anything other than one amongst many in the pack in 5 years. Microsoft has always been good at the pivotal turnaround. Recognizing when a key moment was on the wind, mustering together a tremendous effort, making a good number of smart decisions and putting out a solid anchor product that (re)cements their position in the industry and reinvigorates…

> "I don't know that Bing has "failed" yet, but I highly doubt it'll be anything other than one amongst many in the pack in 5 years." For Microsoft, having a full featured reliable non-core product with measurable market share is a success because it allows Microsoft to offer vertical integration without the specter of anti-trust allegations - imagine the howling in DC and Europe if Bing controlled 70% of search (nev…

I'm afraid you're moving the goal posts a bit. When I was at Microsoft I saw a lot of presentations about how the advertising industry was much bigger than the software industry, and how MS needed to tap into that growth opportunity in a big way. I saw very few presentations about how a modest search market share would keep infrastructure costs lower.

Re: Birth and Death of Microsoft Bing

#109
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Perhaps something like Quora does would help: before you can use the site you have to do a quiz on what kind of comments are good comments." Really? Sorry, but that sounds like a terrible idea. HN is already insular enough, we don't need to start demanding newcomers pass a test before we let them comment.

Let's see. There are two groups of people: people who would have passed the test and people who would not have. The people who would not have would most likely be hellbanned after their first 3 comments (and of course people are allowed to take the test as many times as they want). So you lose nothing. By using a test fewer legitimate people get hellbanned. In other words, this is only going to improve the situation.…

I'm not opposed to it because I think it wouldn't keep bad posters off, I'm opposed to it because it would keep most posters off. It's arrogant and self-righteous. "Sorry, you have to prove you're good enough to post on our holy news aggregator."

It leaves a bitter taste in my mouth and it's the last thing this community needs.

Re: Birth and Death of Microsoft Bing

#110
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one of those very, very scarce texts where mild swearing adds something. 99 out of 100 times, it's just deteriorating the post quality and signs of bad writership.

Indeed. Saying "Michael fucking Burrows" made me look him up (as intended, I guess :) ) "Michael Burrows (born circa 1963) is widely known as the creator of the Burrows/Wheeler transform. He also was, with Louis Monier, one of the two main creators of AltaVista" (which I guess was the point!). He ironically now works to Google according to Wikipedia.

He is also an author of the Google Bigtable (http://labs.google.com/papers/bigtable.html) and Chubby (http://labs.google.com/papers/chubby.html) papers.

In university, we had to read one of his earlier papers, Eraser (http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.22.3...).

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