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The demise of the second-hand bookshop

thecritic.co.uk

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Re: The demise of the second-hand bookshop

#131

Post by Freak_NL »

pessimizer wrote: post #98
xkde wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...we’re talking about public libraries.

If we were, we would also be talking about a way to read books that the author doesn't make a dime on.

The cost of lending and reselling a book is explicitly part of the initial remuneration.

Books deteriorate, and a normal book can only be lent or resold so often. A paperback read by one reader is usually in a good condition (but obviously 'read'), a paperback read by twenty readers (who took it along on travels, dropped it, put it on dirty surfaces, etc.) will be near the end of its life. Hard-cover library books can take more of a beating, but are read by more people and get damaged nonetheless. The average lifespan of a popular library book is short.

If books didn't deteriorate authors and publishers wouldn't make any money from second-hand or library books, but as it is, they do. Any time you read a book, it gets closer to being taken out of circulation. Any time you purchase a book and keep it, you take it out of circulation for years, decades even. That all drives the need for new editions of that book. This is no different from second-hand cars or bicycles.

Re: The demise of the second-hand bookshop

#132

Post by qubex »

mistrial9 wrote: post #21

Used bookstores are a lot like gardens -- they must be tended daily and grown in 100 ways, year after year. The city I grew up in was legendary for used bookstores, and they sit all but empty now, decades later. The 'modern' people chiming in about how to "search faster" are missing an aspect of the experience that is literal and measureable, as well as partially undefineable simply because the portion of the mind an…

When I visited the Pacific North-West in 2015 (I herald from Italy), I made a point of visiting Powell’s Bookstore in Portland (OR) and even chose my hotel (which turned out to be the very hip Ace Hotel) based on proximity to it.

I pointedly decided to buy second-hand copies of several of my favourite books (The Computational Beauty of Nature by Gary William Flake and Surfaces & Essences by Douglas Hofstadter & Emmanuel Sander) from them, despite the absurd logistical hassle of buying them and transcontinentally shipping them home because I wanted storied copies with no pristine air to them.

Re: The demise of the second-hand bookshop

#133

Post by Freak_NL »

chrisseaton wrote: post #60

If you like second-hand bookshops, visit Hay-on-Wye. I'd recommend crossing the Atlantic to see it even. It's in south Wales, and it's a whole village of second-hand bookshops. Many are huge, some are tiny and very specialist (horror, detective fiction, etc.) Every year I spend three or four days there browsing and reading, and doing some walking in the mountains as well.

I've had Hay-on-Wye on my radar for a while (I'm Dutch, so it is a doable holiday destination by train and bus). The surrounding area looks interesting as well, and the mountains certainly appeal to me. You make it sound worthwhile. How are the prices? London's second-hand bookshops seem to be notoriously overpriced (not surprisingly due to rent and costs).

For now the only things holding me back are the fallout of Brexit and Corona.

My wife and I visited London three years ago and popped into bookshops wherever we could find one (Word on the Water, the London book barge was nice), but the best haul we had was on a day trip to the Isle of Wight where we rode the train to the end of the line and hiked to Ventnor where a festival was going on. In a churchyard an old man had a vintage bus he brought to England from Paris for the sole reason that he fell in love with it (the bus, not Paris), so he bought it when it was too old for its public transport role and restored it. It was filled with second-hand books for the occasion (for a charity I think it was), and we came away with a dozen books and a lovely chat.

Re: The demise of the second-hand bookshop

#134

Post by Nullabillity »

3747yreur wrote: post #121
op03 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that what we get out of aggregating here tho at HN or slashdot? Some banter and the browsing of random subjects. I'd like the coffee though if someone cld please figure that part out.

Are you suggesting online posting is the same as an in-person conversation in a somewhat intimate environment? I get that it might be the same for you but surely you can appreciate that for most people online discussions are about as personal as a trip to the dmv.

If anything it's better since, in general, one party isn't there just to sell something to the other.

Re: The demise of the second-hand bookshop

#135

Post by pm215 »

m4rtink wrote: post #99
pm215 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be interested to know how much the Book Off model depends on the fact that manga is a huge market in Japan. Every time I've been into a Book Off, there's always been a huge manga section and it's always packed with people because (a) manga is really popular and (b) they don't shrinkwrap the manga to prevent people reading them in the shop the way a lot of places do. In a market like the UK or US where (comics…

Manga is certainly big part of it, but there was always a sizeable "text only" section as well - 20-30% maybe ? Manga 40-50% I would guess. And indeed, no shrinkwrapping (only exception - the 1000 yen series bundles, but thereit was for practical purposes :) ) and you can see a lot people reading at any time. And its kinda necessary to find what your are lokking for, especially if you are a foreigner with shaky level…

Oh, absolutely, as a foreigner in a Book Off I love the no-shrinkwrap policy and also the way it's a large and well-populated space that's much less intimidating to walk into than the kind of second hand bookshop that's practically empty and you feel like you're being observed by the old dude behind the counter... And they are indeed great too for buying "text-only" books -- I'm just not sure the business model would work anywhere near so well if the text-only section had to carry the whole thing without that 50% manga area.

Re: The demise of the second-hand bookshop

#136

Post by dri_ft »

Freak_NL wrote: post #133
chrisseaton wrote: post #60

If you like second-hand bookshops, visit Hay-on-Wye. I'd recommend crossing the Atlantic to see it even. It's in south Wales, and it's a whole village of second-hand bookshops. Many are huge, some are tiny and very specialist (horror, detective fiction, etc.) Every year I spend three or four days there browsing and reading, and doing some walking in the mountains as well.

I've had Hay-on-Wye on my radar for a while (I'm Dutch, so it is a doable holiday destination by train and bus). The surrounding area looks interesting as well, and the mountains certainly appeal to me. You make it sound worthwhile. How are the prices? London's second-hand bookshops seem to be notoriously overpriced (not surprisingly due to rent and costs). For now the only things holding me back are the fallout of B…

>How are the prices?

Overall good, surely better than London, but there is a spectrum: the cheapest shops there aren't good, and the best ones aren't the most cheap.

Re: The demise of the second-hand bookshop

#137

Post by vr46 »

gorgoiler wrote: post #126
vr46 wrote: post #4

What could well be the very last truly independent bookshop in London, will be gone soon. And I don’t mean Henry Pordes on Charing Cross Road, which I love, but Anthony Hall in Twickenham. He owns his entire building outright, and even though he is a specialist book dealer, has always maintained a small bookshop as a luxury addition to his main office, if you like. At one point, all nine rooms of the building were fi…

You reminded me of Fisher and Sperr in Highgate, gone but not forgotten, and illustrated a little by this article: http://www.dalemcgowan.com/samples/bookcrawling.html It is a grand theme of life that we fail to appreciate these things until it is too late. Thank you for the reminder.

Wow, what a place. I sadly never had the pleasure, being a West/South-West Londoner and only really making it as far as Camden in my teens. I used to live in Marylebone and there is still a fantabulous little bookshop - as far as I know - called Archive, which deals with a lot of sheet music and retains a piano. It's a marvel. Buried in the backstreets just south of Church Street market, and just thinking about it makes me want to bike into town and give them all my money.

Re: The demise of the second-hand bookshop

#138

Post by toyg »

grugagag wrote: post #111
toyg wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what growing old looks like, friend. The world we knew is going away, to be replaced by a new world for new people who care about different things. I'm sure people who genuinely loved tending to mules and horses "lost interest" when regular folks started using trains and cars to travel. It's just how it is - humanity goes forth, as it will.

But that is only partially true. People socialize a lot less than they used to, things changed in a fundamental way. If you look around in NYC 50% of storefronts are empty and unoccupied. There are multiple reasons for the latter but it still is a fundamental change. Maybe the virtual world is thriving in some hot pockets but the analog world is becoming less welcoming to many of us.

> People socialize a lot less than they used to

You live in a small rural community. Industrial revolution happens, and slowly most people move to cities. If you stay in the little town, you feel lonely, "people don't visit anymore". If you move to the city and try to live by the old rules of rural community, you'll be upset: "people on the street don't say hello and good morning anymore, they don't socialize!". But they do - just by different rules, across different groups from before.

We are going through an industrial change on a level last seen 100 years ago at best (electricity, cars, factories). Life is changing accordingly.

Re: The demise of the second-hand bookshop

#139

Post by toyg »

pessimizer wrote: post #92
toyg wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but I can also see a future of smaller web-based bookshops with specialised algorithms based on more uncommon, specialized parameters. Think "books about philosophy that used to be popular in the '70s".

If we're not seeing that in the present, I don't anticipate seeing it in the future. I see a future of monopolistic rentseekers continuing to make the least possible effort.

We've not yet reached a level of digital literacy necessary for that sort of niche to survive. Ecommerce has reduced profit margins for brick & mortar to levels that are almost unsustainable (hence the well-reported closures), but b&m chains still exist and push a lot of volume, and a lot of people don't trust their internet skills enough to try non-brand shops.

Timing is important. Remember the "New Economy" boom? A lot of those businesses didn't survive just because there weren't enough customers online. I say we're now in a position where there are enough customers to keep large businesses afloat, but not enough to sustain niches big enough to leave them some surplus to invest in algo optimization. I think this will change sometime in the next 30 years. By the time everyone under 65 will have grown up with the internet as a given, I think we'll see the "final form" of the new market.

Also, the necessary algo tech is still not cheap.

Re: The demise of the second-hand bookshop

#140

Post by razakel »

smoe wrote: post #36
mistrial9 wrote: post #21

Used bookstores are a lot like gardens -- they must be tended daily and grown in 100 ways, year after year. The city I grew up in was legendary for used bookstores, and they sit all but empty now, decades later. The 'modern' people chiming in about how to "search faster" are missing an aspect of the experience that is literal and measureable, as well as partially undefineable simply because the portion of the mind an…

For me, the most magical thing about the small local bookstores is the people working there. Just getting into one, chatting with people genuinely and deeply passionate about what it is that they are selling. Having a coffee, talking about a book I read, what aspects I liked, philosophizing about the topic in general and getting recommendations what to read next based on that has beaten at least 10x any 'modern' and…

Unless the person working there is Bernard Black.
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