Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok • Hacker News Board

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#91

Post by Aperocky » Mon, Aug 24, 2020, 12:44 AM UTC

holografix wrote: post #81

Reality is that while China blocks Facebook, Google, etc and smartly props up their own clones, it’s “aghast” at the American protectionism and xenophobic behaviour. How dare the Americans block a Chinese app?! China is not a democracy. It’s not interested in fairness. China is playing the long game. Just like the wars of the past were fought with little toy armies of a few thousand knights and noblemen marching into…

There's a difference, facebook did not attempt to run its social media business in China, and Google voluntarily quit so it doesn't have to comply to censorship law. Meanwhile Tiktok has a US branch and is complying with laws in the US.

China has a restrictive internet where if you want to operate, you have to comply with a certain set of rules that are unsavory to say the least. Facebook, Google decided to not bother instead of complying to those rules, but they very well could have, Bing and Amazon is in China.

Tiktok's US branch did not violate any US law and its being prosecuted with administrative action, which is why your equivalence is false - The actual equivalence would be to make laws that enforces ownership for social media companies and make them store their content in location. And enforce those laws, like China did.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#92

Post by spamizbad » Mon, Aug 24, 2020, 12:45 AM UTC

babl-yc wrote: post #31

Facebook is banned in China. Is it unreasonable to encourage US gvt to apply pressure for a more even playing field? I know the narrative (and majority of comments) like to hate on Zuck, so just adding another perspective for this particular situation.

If you think the American way is superior why are you so quick to throw it in the trash to adopt China's policies?

Or is it your view the American way deficient and we should learn from China?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#93

Post by metamet » Mon, Aug 24, 2020, 12:45 AM UTC

shoulderfake wrote: post #87

This is horseshit. The last thing fb wants is for nations to start banning each others technology companies. Tik tok being banned in India and USA could start a domino effect that see's fb being kicked out of many countries that follow.

How exactly is this "horseshit"?

  In a private dinner at the White House in late October, Mr. Zuckerberg made the case to President Trump that the rise of Chinese internet companies threatens American business, and should be a bigger concern than reining in Facebook, some of the people said.
  
  Mr. Zuckerberg discussed TikTok specifically in meetings with several senators, according to people familiar with the meetings. In late October, Sen. Tom Cotton (R., Ark.)—who met with Mr. Zuckerberg in September—and Sen. Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) wrote a letter to intelligence officials demanding an inquiry into TikTok. The government began a national-security review of the company soon after, and by the spring, Mr. Trump began threatening to ban the app entirely. This month he signed an executive order demanding that TikTok’s Chinese owner, ByteDance Ltd., divest itself of its U.S. operations.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#94

Post by baby » Mon, Aug 24, 2020, 12:46 AM UTC

Aperocky wrote: post #91

holografix wrote: post #81

Reality is that while China blocks Facebook, Google, etc and smartly props up their own clones, it’s “aghast” at the American protectionism and xenophobic behaviour. How dare the Americans block a Chinese app?! China is not a democracy. It’s not interested in fairness. China is playing the long game. Just like the wars of the past were fought with little toy armies of a few thousand knights and noblemen marching into…

There's a difference, facebook did not attempt to run its social media business in China, and Google voluntarily quit so it doesn't have to comply to censorship law. Meanwhile Tiktok has a US branch and is complying with laws in the US. China has a restrictive internet where if you want to operate, you have to comply with a certain set of rules that are unsavory to say the least. Facebook, Google decided to not bothe…

I don't think you realize how impossible it is to enter the Chinese market... Google wasted a ton of money trying to enter the US market (I recommend watching this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XImsSgdr4fg), and Facebook did too. Look at how it went for Uber.

If you want to give an example of a US company that is doing much better in China, it's Apple, and the sole reason is that everybody who works for the Chinese government owns an iPhone.

BTW I was living in China when Facebook got banned, it was in 2008 when it started becoming popular outside of the US. Nobody saw it coming, and obviously there was no way for Facebook to go back into that market once the CCP decided against that.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#95

Post by AlphaSite » Mon, Aug 24, 2020, 12:47 AM UTC

Aperocky wrote: post #91

holografix wrote: post #81

Reality is that while China blocks Facebook, Google, etc and smartly props up their own clones, it’s “aghast” at the American protectionism and xenophobic behaviour. How dare the Americans block a Chinese app?! China is not a democracy. It’s not interested in fairness. China is playing the long game. Just like the wars of the past were fought with little toy armies of a few thousand knights and noblemen marching into…

There's a difference, facebook did not attempt to run its social media business in China, and Google voluntarily quit so it doesn't have to comply to censorship law. Meanwhile Tiktok has a US branch and is complying with laws in the US. China has a restrictive internet where if you want to operate, you have to comply with a certain set of rules that are unsavory to say the least. Facebook, Google decided to not bothe…

Aren’t there restrictions that the companies need to be 51% owned by local interests? And issues with IP transfer, etc.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#96

Post by holografix » Mon, Aug 24, 2020, 12:49 AM UTC

Aperocky wrote: post #91

holografix wrote: post #81

Reality is that while China blocks Facebook, Google, etc and smartly props up their own clones, it’s “aghast” at the American protectionism and xenophobic behaviour. How dare the Americans block a Chinese app?! China is not a democracy. It’s not interested in fairness. China is playing the long game. Just like the wars of the past were fought with little toy armies of a few thousand knights and noblemen marching into…

There's a difference, facebook did not attempt to run its social media business in China, and Google voluntarily quit so it doesn't have to comply to censorship law. Meanwhile Tiktok has a US branch and is complying with laws in the US. China has a restrictive internet where if you want to operate, you have to comply with a certain set of rules that are unsavory to say the least. Facebook, Google decided to not bothe…

I get what you’re saying, it’s a very smart point of view. China has enacted absurd, oppressive laws which it interprets conveniently in favour of the party when it wants. However it wants to enjoy all the freedoms awarded to the rest of the western democratic and capitalist world, defended by their laws. It’s the old communist adage: Socialism for other, private property for me.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#97

Post by Aperocky » Mon, Aug 24, 2020, 12:49 AM UTC

AlphaSite wrote: post #95

Aperocky wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference, facebook did not attempt to run its social media business in China, and Google voluntarily quit so it doesn't have to comply to censorship law. Meanwhile Tiktok has a US branch and is complying with laws in the US. China has a restrictive internet where if you want to operate, you have to comply with a certain set of rules that are unsavory to say the least. Facebook, Google decided to not bothe…

Aren’t there restrictions that the companies need to be 51% owned by local interests? And issues with IP transfer, etc.

Precisely, that's what I'm talking about, if you think the US should adopt the same restriction, maybe ask your representative to pass such a law then.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#98

Post by baby » Mon, Aug 24, 2020, 12:50 AM UTC

chmaynard wrote: post #6

Mark Zuckerberg knows that if another platform were sufficiently compelling, his users could turn on a dime (notice I didn't say customers). Zuckerberg is deathly afraid of competition and he is very aggressive about protecting Facebook's stranglehold on the social media advertising market.

Facebook is banned in China, it thus cannot even enter the competition.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#99

Post by holografix » Mon, Aug 24, 2020, 12:50 AM UTC

AlphaSite wrote: post #95

Aperocky wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference, facebook did not attempt to run its social media business in China, and Google voluntarily quit so it doesn't have to comply to censorship law. Meanwhile Tiktok has a US branch and is complying with laws in the US. China has a restrictive internet where if you want to operate, you have to comply with a certain set of rules that are unsavory to say the least. Facebook, Google decided to not bothe…

Aren’t there restrictions that the companies need to be 51% owned by local interests? And issues with IP transfer, etc.

Do you think it’s a coincidence Xiaomi keeps producing very good smartphones and other tech?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#100

Post by babl-yc » Mon, Aug 24, 2020, 12:52 AM UTC

baby wrote: post #82

babl-yc wrote: post #31

Facebook is banned in China. Is it unreasonable to encourage US gvt to apply pressure for a more even playing field? I know the narrative (and majority of comments) like to hate on Zuck, so just adding another perspective for this particular situation.

I actually see this rhetoric a lot, and I'm not completely disagreeing with it, but at the same time I'm scared of the effects of playing the same game with the CCP and the ramifications of such move: it seems to always end up in a "us versus them" scenario which further divides the world. If you see a few people backing the US government's decision of attacking Chinese apps, imagine how the Chinese people are being…

US could definitely do a better job of leading by example here while still fighting for a more level playing field.

I don't like the idea of trusting the executive branch to arbitrarily ban apps. Would much prefer a clear policy as to when and why actions are taken, and what policy changes could be done to avoid them altogether.