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Microsoft Statement in Support of Epic [pdf]

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Re: Microsoft Statement in Support of Epic [pdf]

#11

Post by quelsolaar »

I'm extremely surprised that Apple would engage in something that could in court be perceived as retaliatory against someone who is filing a complaint regarding anti competitive behavior.

The definition of anti trust is to use your position in one market to gain an unfair advantage in an other market. By denying Epic access in the game engine market, Apple is trying to get Epic to fold in the game distribution market. Thats text book antitrust behavior.

It is shocking to me that Apples lawyers, would allow Apple to so blatantly threaten Epic in this way. They are providing a clear example of anti competitive behavior, for Epic to use in future litigation. You would think Apple has good enough lawyers to put a stop to this self defeating behavior.

Re: Microsoft Statement in Support of Epic [pdf]

#12

Post by factorialboy »

api wrote: post #8
SheinhardtWigCo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Xbox isn’t marketed as a general purpose computer, nor is it integral to the economy.

I have always seen iOS devices as consoles, or at least closer to consoles than PCs. Anything with a locked App Store and a locked boot loader is a console by definition. MacOS is a general purpose computer OS. Considered as a console iOS is actually more open and capable than most.

> Considered as a console

But it's not just a console.

Re: Microsoft Statement in Support of Epic [pdf]

#13

Post by ppseafield »

shrewduser wrote: post #9
EricE wrote: post #3

If they feel so strongly about it let Epic open a store inside the Xbox. What? Didn’t think so.

Does Microsoft get a 30% cut of all subscriptions and items bought via apps on Xbox?

AFAICT yes. From what I could find, it seems they dropped the Microsoft App Store from 30% to 5%, but their % take for games is still 30%, including in-app purchases.

[0] https://9to5mac.com/2019/03/06/microsoft-store-revenue-share...

[1] https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2019/03/06/update...

[2] https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/07/report-steams-30-cut...

[3] https://query.prod.cms.rt.microsoft.com/cms/api/am/binary/RE...

Re: Microsoft Statement in Support of Epic [pdf]

#14

Post by hnick »

microtherion wrote: post #5
Someone wrote: post #2

It may be (and, I guess, probably is) written with Microsoft’s help or even be mostly written by them, but I think that’s a personal statement by somebody who claims authority by specifying his job. I also do not read anything there that will affect this round of this fight, which is about the question whether an urgent ruling has to be made that Apple should _now_ be forced to chance its stance.

> I think that’s a personal statement I doubt that a major company would let someone at this level of management make such a "personal statement" without signing off on it internally. Even as an individual contributor at such a company, you would invite quite a bit of trouble with this.

Yes zero chance. As a lowly developer, even if I get asked a question directly by the media about something the company did I'm not allowed to answer per the stated rules. I have to direct them to the department of spin or whatever it's called.

Re: Microsoft Statement in Support of Epic [pdf]

#15

Post by emsy »

api wrote: post #8
SheinhardtWigCo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Xbox isn’t marketed as a general purpose computer, nor is it integral to the economy.

I have always seen iOS devices as consoles, or at least closer to consoles than PCs. Anything with a locked App Store and a locked boot loader is a console by definition. MacOS is a general purpose computer OS. Considered as a console iOS is actually more open and capable than most.

A console that hosts an app to fight a global pandemic, is used for payment, flight tickets, banking, web browsing (for some people it's their only access to the internet), navigation, taking photos, calling an ambulance. Other than web browsing, none of the things I listed is done on gaming consoles.

Re: Microsoft Statement in Support of Epic [pdf]

#16

Post by ctvo »

api wrote: post #8
SheinhardtWigCo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Xbox isn’t marketed as a general purpose computer, nor is it integral to the economy.

I have always seen iOS devices as consoles, or at least closer to consoles than PCs. Anything with a locked App Store and a locked boot loader is a console by definition. MacOS is a general purpose computer OS. Considered as a console iOS is actually more open and capable than most.

You should let Apple in on that definition so they’ll stop marketing and selling the iPad as a general computing device.

Re: Microsoft Statement in Support of Epic [pdf]

#17

Post by DethNinja »

quelsolaar wrote: post #11

I'm extremely surprised that Apple would engage in something that could in court be perceived as retaliatory against someone who is filing a complaint regarding anti competitive behavior. The definition of anti trust is to use your position in one market to gain an unfair advantage in an other market. By denying Epic access in the game engine market, Apple is trying to get Epic to fold in the game distribution market…

Technically, Apple is completely in the wrong here and in any country with a sane justice system they would lose this case due to blatant anticompetitive behaviour.

However, Apple is also one of the largest companies of USA and a quite successful one. At that size they must have considerably good lobbying efforts, political class might also have connections to Apple through shares etc. They might go and say that enabling third party vendors will cause thousands to lose their jobs at Apple. They basically got a huge amount of political influence and I’m sure they will use it for this case.

How much political influence Epic games have? Zero? Perhaps not zero but definitely not at the level of Apple. Hence, this case might not be a straightforward win for Epic.

It is good though, perhaps some of the fortnite players will understand why antitrust laws are needed and perhaps influence the justice system once they grow up.

Re: Microsoft Statement in Support of Epic [pdf]

#18

Post by quelsolaar »

DethNinja wrote: post #17
quelsolaar wrote: post #11

I'm extremely surprised that Apple would engage in something that could in court be perceived as retaliatory against someone who is filing a complaint regarding anti competitive behavior. The definition of anti trust is to use your position in one market to gain an unfair advantage in an other market. By denying Epic access in the game engine market, Apple is trying to get Epic to fold in the game distribution market…

Technically, Apple is completely in the wrong here and in any country with a sane justice system they would lose this case due to blatant anticompetitive behaviour. However, Apple is also one of the largest companies of USA and a quite successful one. At that size they must have considerably good lobbying efforts, political class might also have connections to Apple through shares etc. They might go and say that enab…

I agree. I wrote a long thing about it: https://twitter.com/EskilSteenberg/status/129752027579013939...

I think Epic has been smart to do a lot of PR on this. They need public support since this will become political. I'm surprised that Epic hasn't filed in the EU too.

Re: Microsoft Statement in Support of Epic [pdf]

#20

Post by kick »

DethNinja wrote: post #17
quelsolaar wrote: post #11

I'm extremely surprised that Apple would engage in something that could in court be perceived as retaliatory against someone who is filing a complaint regarding anti competitive behavior. The definition of anti trust is to use your position in one market to gain an unfair advantage in an other market. By denying Epic access in the game engine market, Apple is trying to get Epic to fold in the game distribution market…

Technically, Apple is completely in the wrong here and in any country with a sane justice system they would lose this case due to blatant anticompetitive behaviour. However, Apple is also one of the largest companies of USA and a quite successful one. At that size they must have considerably good lobbying efforts, political class might also have connections to Apple through shares etc. They might go and say that enab…

Technically,

You're using this word wrong.

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