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Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

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Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#351

Post by timmytokyo »

puranjay wrote: post #340
ashtonkem wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cops involved went back to where they killed Elijah McCain and posed for a group photo, reportedly re-enacting his death. This is the behavior I’d expect from a serial killer. Edit: they then distributed or showed this photo to the rest of the precinct. We know because a whistleblower notified the media. To my eye, this means that they expected the rest of the precinct to approve of this behavior, which is extrem…

> The cops involved went back to where they killed Elijah McCain and posed for a group photo, reportedly re-enacting his death What compels someone to do that?

Nothing compels them. It is who they are. And they are not alone in being like this.

The better question is, why are so many people in positions of authority like this?

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#352

Post by wonderwonder »

sudosysgen wrote: post #335
chmod775 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most countries you can get off the hook for pretty much anything if you had a good reason to fear for your life. In some countries it's even enough that a police officer is acting (obviously) unlawfully, giving you the right to resist.[1] [1]: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__32.html

In my country (Canada), using firearms for self-defence is almost universally regarded as illegal. However, when police officers exerted a no-knock warrant on the wrong person, and they defended themselves using firearms, they were found illegal, because it was judged that armed intruders violently barging through and threatening you in your home is one of the rare cases where the situation is so outrageous that it i…

Generally this is the case, very often because either dead men tell no tales or the victim was a minority (see Breonna Taylor) . A while back though in TX there was a case where cops executed a no knock raid beginning with a flash bang and the homeowner shot 3 of them. The homeowner was not the target of the raid. He was found not guilty of attempted murder. I am sure the court fees and lost job destroyed his life though. Mug shot also appears to show he was very much roughed up in the process.

There are many instances of people using weapons in self defense and then police arrive and kill the gun owner. For instance; Jemel_Roberson' a black armed security guard that subdued a shooter in a bar. Cop showed up and immediately killed the security guard then lied that he was given multiple commands to drop the weapon. Witnesses said the cop arrived and shot the guard within 5 seconds. Later police changed their story and said it was just a case of friendly fire, very sad nothing can be done. And nothing was done.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Jemel_Roberson

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#353

Post by gwright »

aazaa wrote: post #341
gwright wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wearing a ski mask in public during the summer, although odd, is not a crime, either. I don't know much at all about the McClain case, but your statement seems to have a flawed assumption that a crime is required before police can legitimately get involved. Policing doesn't only occur after a crime is committed. A big part of policing is about deterrence: being visible, talking with people in the community, investi…

From the story I linked: > When officers Nathan Woodyard, Jason Rosenblatt and Randy Roedema stopped Elijah McClain on his way home, one telling him that he was "being suspicious," according to police body camera video. McClain responded, "I have a right to go where I am going." > The officers immediately grabbed McClain, who repeatedly told them to let him go. This has nothing to do with being visible, talking with…

I wasn't responding to the specifics of that case. I was responding to the implied assertion that a crime is required before police interaction is justified, which is wrong. I tried to make that clear but apparently I wasn't clear enough.

Using that flawed assumption to argue that the police did something wrong in the McClain case is just noise. It distracts from understanding the facts of the matter.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#354

Post by pjc50 »

puranjay wrote: post #340
ashtonkem wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cops involved went back to where they killed Elijah McCain and posed for a group photo, reportedly re-enacting his death. This is the behavior I’d expect from a serial killer. Edit: they then distributed or showed this photo to the rest of the precinct. We know because a whistleblower notified the media. To my eye, this means that they expected the rest of the precinct to approve of this behavior, which is extrem…

> The cops involved went back to where they killed Elijah McCain and posed for a group photo, reportedly re-enacting his death What compels someone to do that?

Racism. They were celebrating their victory.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#355

Post by mateus1 »

GhostVII wrote: post #107
mateus1 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Policemen without any medical training are injecting and murdering people with drugs. This is a disturbing (and new) phenomenon. At least for someone outside the US.

That is false, police are not injecting people with Ketamine. As the article says, paramedics are.

I know they are not personally injecting the drugs themselves.

But if they are requesting, ordering and even determining dosages is completely disturbing and inappropriate.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#356

Post by lilbopete »

antioink wrote: post #324
scarface74 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it’s not about abolishing the police. “Defund the police”, which I agree is a bad term, is about focusing some of those funds on social programs and only calling the police for true criminal causes. I am definitely not a conservative on most issues, but I am a strong believer in the right to have a gun in your own home and the various “Castle” laws. If you break into my house or try to take my car while I am in it…

> I am a strong believer in the right to have a gun in your own home and the various “Castle” laws. If you break into my house or try to take my car while I am in it, I am going to assume you mean me harm. Shoot first then call the cops. Do you know how absurd this sounds to people in actual civilized countries? Kind of amazing how many of you Americans are living in some Wild West fantasy.

I would much rather live in a world with fewer guns. But, with the proliferation of guns in the US, what is the left suppose to do when confronted by an armed assailant in their own home? We are not going to get rid of guns in America. What other protection do you have?

4 in 10 Americans live in a gun owning household. That number is probably greater in the south.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/10/22/facts-about...

It’s probably even greater for someone willing to break into your house.

Guns in the US is a “gravity problem” no matter how much you complain about them, they aren’t going anywhere.

We live in a country where the far right is arming up and when the left wants to “peacefully protest” and exercise their first amendment (not saying it always ends up being peaceful), the far right is “exercising their 2nd amendment”.

Which side do you think is going to come out ahead?

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#357

Post by mateus1 »

ashtonkem wrote: post #268
tehwebguy wrote: post #158

Police should never be permitted to direct medical professionals to do anything to a person in their custody unless it is to save their life. Medical professionals should be hyper-trained on how to tell police “hell no” and to report their requests to an independent agency for investigation. There are other types of scenarios where out of control cops bully doctors and nurses into doing illegal things, two that I hav…

The cops involved went back to where they killed Elijah McCain and posed for a group photo, reportedly re-enacting his death. This is the behavior I’d expect from a serial killer. Edit: they then distributed or showed this photo to the rest of the precinct. We know because a whistleblower notified the media. To my eye, this means that they expected the rest of the precinct to approve of this behavior, which is extrem…

Minor correction: the victim's name is Elijah McClain.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#358

Post by fortran77 »

dirtnugget wrote: post #255
fortran77 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police in the U.S. are usually extremely overweight. They might not know that a healthy 5'10 adult should weigh 150 pounds.

That seems like an overly generalised thing to say.

There are FBI reports that say the same thing, referenced here:

https://inpublicsafety.com/2015/01/tackling-the-obesity-epid...

and here:

"FBI: 80 Percent Of Police Officers Are Overweight"

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2014/08/14/fbi-80-percent-of-police...

Why on earth would you come to challenge something without first checking if its true?

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#359

Post by nocturnial »

GhostVII wrote: post #132

Pretty much everywhere in the world, paramedics are allowed to inject sedatives when treating a patient. Ketamine is used in many places (the US, UK, Canada, Australia, Austria) by paramedics, because it is very safe relative to other sedatives. So the main concern should whether or not police are ordering EMS to administer it when it is not actually required (police do not administer it themselves), since I don't th…

> Pretty much everywhere in the world, paramedics are allowed to inject sedatives when treating a patient.

I don't know how you define pretty much everywhere, but in the EU it's illegal pretty much everywhere. [0]

I know in practice those laws get ignored, but, as a paramedic or doctor, you could get into trouble if someone decides to sue over it. The reality is that the law isn't on your side on this issue.

[0] https://webgate.ec.europa.eu/chafea_pdb/assets/files/pdb/200...

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#360

Post by thethethethe »

throwawayWSQA wrote: post #266
bobowzki wrote: post #185

I'm an anesthesiologist. This is insane.

what and why? Specifically, what and why is insane and how is being an anesthesiologist relevant? Note, I don't think police should inject anyone with a substance (personally, I'd rather get shot with a bullet than involuntarily shot with an anesthetic), but how is being an anesthesiologist relevant? The question: "should cops direct paramedic to administer K shots" is an ethics, or a religious, question. Not a medic…

> how is being an anesthesiologist relevant?

Uhhhh anesthesiologists are experts in administratering sedatives to humans safely. The connection here seems pretty obvious to me...

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