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The demise of the second-hand bookshop

thecritic.co.uk

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Re: The demise of the second-hand bookshop

#21

Post by mistrial9 »

Used bookstores are a lot like gardens -- they must be tended daily and grown in 100 ways, year after year. The city I grew up in was legendary for used bookstores, and they sit all but empty now, decades later. The 'modern' people chiming in about how to "search faster" are missing an aspect of the experience that is literal and measureable, as well as partially undefineable simply because the portion of the mind and senses that is exercised is non-linear -- file that under "non-linear thinking"

I have a Powells bookstore bookbag, and know others that do, too. Bookstores were a destination across counties or states. The loss of these local bookstores has 1000 unintended consequences. People see the absence the same way they see the absence of a blooming meadow where there is now only pavement and some litter -- in other words, not at all.

I am literally disheartened by the loss of local bookstores, in any size town.

Re: The demise of the second-hand bookshop

#22

Post by bjo590 »

contingencies wrote: post #15
sbuccini wrote: post #6

The big second-hand bookseller in my town has a huge collection and several locations in multiple metro areas. Yet they have no way to search for a specific title! I was shocked. If you have no idea of your current inventory and sales history, how do you know how much to pay for people's books? Their books are about $0.50 a title -- I would gladly pay that price for a book I would otherwise get from the library if I…

All books in the last ~50 years have a barcode already printed on them, and an ISBN printed inside. Any phone camera can read these. If you assume 15 seconds per book at pace, 40 books per shelf, 6 shelves per bookcase, and 30 bookcases in the average store, complete digitization of a collection should take only ... Edit: Responding comment is quite right, original calculation mistaken. It's 4AM here. 40 × 6 × 30 = 7…

Assuming ~600 man hours (your numbers) to digitize an entire used book store, at $15/hr cost for labor it would cost ~$900 to digitize a bookstore. I think you're shy a factor of 3 or 4 on the amount of labor it would take to digitize a book store, given my experience with running inventory at retail shops. Maybe it could be worth it if there was an inventory management system that could automatically post the books for sale on an internet platform, but if every used book store posted their entire inventory online the market for many titles would be flooded and it would be a race to the bottom.

Ultimately all physical retails spaces have the same common problem -- why should someone go into your store when they can get the same products online. This problem is even bigger during covid-19. I personally think there are two answer, one is to move the core retail business online, and the other is to create experiences people will keep coming back for. If you're making unique products it might be best to pivot online. If you're into the classic buy wholesale sell retail business than the online market can be very competitive.

A used book store can be a great place to have experiences. Authors can come and talk, you can have children story time, book clubs can meet, coffee shops pair well with book stores. You have to clear inventory to make space for experiences, but you can use it as an opportunity to remove inventory that wasn't selling anyway.

Re: The demise of the second-hand bookshop

#23

Post by biophysboy »

One thing I appreciate about second-hand bookshops and libraries is that they are not curated for me.

I read a lot of non-fiction, and I find that websites like Amazon and Goodreads do give decent suggestions, but they are books about topics I already know, sharing ideas I am already familiar with, in a style I like. I can feel the customer profit gradient descent maximization breathing down my neck. Looking at you, books with sans-serif titles, white backgrounds, and clever illustrations!

Algorithmic websites prioritize the new and the popular, whereas bookshops and libraries still feature the old and obscure (I realize that libraries have 30 copies of Harry Potter, but you get my point).

So, in my opinion, while these vicious market forces are currently destroying bookshops, I think it'll get to a steady state where bookshops serve a smaller, more loyal and niche audience.

Re: The demise of the second-hand bookshop

#24

Post by ninjinxo »

bjo590 wrote: post #22
contingencies wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All books in the last ~50 years have a barcode already printed on them, and an ISBN printed inside. Any phone camera can read these. If you assume 15 seconds per book at pace, 40 books per shelf, 6 shelves per bookcase, and 30 bookcases in the average store, complete digitization of a collection should take only ... Edit: Responding comment is quite right, original calculation mistaken. It's 4AM here. 40 × 6 × 30 = 7…

Assuming ~600 man hours (your numbers) to digitize an entire used book store, at $15/hr cost for labor it would cost ~$900 to digitize a bookstore. I think you're shy a factor of 3 or 4 on the amount of labor it would take to digitize a book store, given my experience with running inventory at retail shops. Maybe it could be worth it if there was an inventory management system that could automatically post the books…

You may want to run those numbers again, you're shy a factor of ten.

Edit: the parent comment's calcs are wrong too

Re: The demise of the second-hand bookshop

#25

Post by xaqfox »

sbuccini wrote: post #6

The big second-hand bookseller in my town has a huge collection and several locations in multiple metro areas. Yet they have no way to search for a specific title! I was shocked. If you have no idea of your current inventory and sales history, how do you know how much to pay for people's books? Their books are about $0.50 a title -- I would gladly pay that price for a book I would otherwise get from the library if I…

This is similar to the use case that OPDS is marketing itself with. It was featured on HN a week ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24178548

https://opds.io

Re: The demise of the second-hand bookshop

#26

Post by bjo590 »

ninjinxo wrote: post #24
bjo590 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming ~600 man hours (your numbers) to digitize an entire used book store, at $15/hr cost for labor it would cost ~$900 to digitize a bookstore. I think you're shy a factor of 3 or 4 on the amount of labor it would take to digitize a book store, given my experience with running inventory at retail shops. Maybe it could be worth it if there was an inventory management system that could automatically post the books…

You may want to run those numbers again, you're shy a factor of ten. Edit: the parent comment's calcs are wrong too

I won't run the numbers again, because I think the meat of my comment is in paragraph 2 and 3.

Re: The demise of the second-hand bookshop

#27

Post by et-al »

mistrial9 wrote: post #21

Used bookstores are a lot like gardens -- they must be tended daily and grown in 100 ways, year after year. The city I grew up in was legendary for used bookstores, and they sit all but empty now, decades later. The 'modern' people chiming in about how to "search faster" are missing an aspect of the experience that is literal and measureable, as well as partially undefineable simply because the portion of the mind an…

I'm curious what percentage are sales from merch for "destination" bookstores like Powell's and Strand these days.

Re: The demise of the second-hand bookshop

#28

Post by throwawaysea »

gxqoz wrote: post #16
throwawaysea wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s https://bookshop.org for injecting modernity into supporting independent bookstores. It doesn’t help specifically for used book stores however.

I find the bookshop.org model a bit weird. There's no real reason that independent bookshops need to be part of it, apart from a marketing angle to court people who want to "help local bookstores" over Amazon.com. From a recent NYT article on the site: "Orders are fulfilled through Ingram, a large book distributor, and mailed directly to customers, so stores don’t have to have the books in stock or process inventory.…

Yea I don't fully understand it either, to be honest. Also it's interesting because in a recent HN discussion about Jeff Bezos courting early investors, the second employee of Amazon showed up in the comment section (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24245909) and he mentions Ingram:

> I remember that not long after we "opened the doors" to the public, we had a visit from some reps from either Ingram or Baker & Taylor, the US's two biggest book distributors (I forget which). Part of the reason Jeff had picked Seattle was that it was within the 1 day delivery radius for both companies. These guys came over to see what we were doing and they were completely flabbergasted. They could not believe that a few people in a small commercial building in Seattle had built what we had already done by that point. They had no idea of the technologies involved, they had no grasp of the vision. But we never had to convince companies like this - we just ordered books from them, as their customers, and then sold them to ours.

In some ways it's like Ingram is striking back at Amazon, and sharing part of the proceeds with independent bookstores. My current feeling is that it has its place. I don't want Amazon to accumulate even more control and kill the diversity of businesses that make up our society.

Re: The demise of the second-hand bookshop

#29

Post by billjings »

bjo590 wrote: post #22
contingencies wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All books in the last ~50 years have a barcode already printed on them, and an ISBN printed inside. Any phone camera can read these. If you assume 15 seconds per book at pace, 40 books per shelf, 6 shelves per bookcase, and 30 bookcases in the average store, complete digitization of a collection should take only ... Edit: Responding comment is quite right, original calculation mistaken. It's 4AM here. 40 × 6 × 30 = 7…

Assuming ~600 man hours (your numbers) to digitize an entire used book store, at $15/hr cost for labor it would cost ~$900 to digitize a bookstore. I think you're shy a factor of 3 or 4 on the amount of labor it would take to digitize a book store, given my experience with running inventory at retail shops. Maybe it could be worth it if there was an inventory management system that could automatically post the books…

"Ultimately all physical retails spaces have the same common problem -- why should someone go into your store when they can get the same products online. ...I personally think there are two answer, one is to move the core retail business online, and the other is to create experiences people will keep coming back for."

This is a great observation. I think that every business looking at option 1 would run away in terror, as that would mean competing directly with Amazon. My local bookstores have pursued this to some degree out of necessity in covid times, but it doesn't seem sustainable, and I never got the impression that they prioritized it.

The bookstores local to me that have thrived have pursued the latter strategy with events, but primarily by having an opinionated selection that is a joy to browse. Amazon cannot compete on this for two reasons:

First, they cannot have a uniquely opinionated selection. They can have an "Amazon" selection, which will by its nature be the lower common denominator, or they can have a "personalized" selection, which will by its nature play to the customer's pre-existing interests and the generic global recommendation insights from Amazon's ML models. People do have lists on Amazon, but this isn't a profitmaking endeavour worth a full time commitment. No single perspective will be rich enough to engross the consumer for more than a minute or two, or call them to return regularly.

Second is that Amazon does not provide the physical experience of browsing physical books.

As you said, this still leaves the problem: even given all the above, why wouldn't someone just browse the in person bookstore and buy the books online? Thankfully, the survival of these stores shows that there enough buyers are "non-rational" to financially support the experiences they enjoy.

Re: The demise of the second-hand bookshop

#30

Post by jb775 »

I actually really appreciate second-hand books. It sounds weird, but it makes it feel like there's more life to a book knowing others have read that exact copy. I also find it interesting and often helpful reading notes or underlined/highlighted parts of the book.

I recently purchased a few books from thriftbooks.com and noticed they shipped from different locations....I'm not sure if they're run as a marketplace where individual sellers can post books, or if they have multiple warehouses.

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