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Semi-transparent solar panels allow concurrent production of crops and power

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

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Re: Semi-transparent solar panels allow concurrent production of crops and power

#31

Post by iancmceachern »

jameslk wrote: post #29
ianai wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t matter. Much of the US roads aren’t anywhere near trees - ie the southwest. Huge amount of roads and solar power potential there too. Also, cleaning crews are a thing that have existed in the past and should again.

Replace leaves with tumbleweeds. Or whatever natural debris we have in the west. The leaves were causing damage to the solar panels. I imagine other types of debris would do the same. But I'd be happy to be wrong. Have you asked why this hasn't already been done yet? Or if it has (besides the example I provided), what was the outcome?

Have you spent much time driving in the empty areas of the west? You can go 100 miles without even seeing a tumbleweed.

Re: Semi-transparent solar panels allow concurrent production of crops and power

#32

Post by c22 »

yellow_lead wrote: post #28
mysterydip wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Found this out in the house we are renting with solar panels installed by landlord. Bright sunny day, someone hits a pole nearby, power goes out. There are two kinds of solar: one that adds to the existing signal from the mains, or one that is self-contained. The second kind is more complicated and therefore expensive. I wasn't aware of the distinction before, but I definitely am now.

Aren't there setups that can do both as well? i.e charge battery first and send excess to the grid?

Yes, but any setup that's capable of feeding power back to the grid requires costly safety interlocks to allow linemen to make repairs at the street without your house unexpectedly energizing the line. Some jurisdictions just outright disallow it.

Re: Semi-transparent solar panels allow concurrent production of crops and power

#33

Post by qayxc »

yellow_lead wrote: post #28
mysterydip wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Found this out in the house we are renting with solar panels installed by landlord. Bright sunny day, someone hits a pole nearby, power goes out. There are two kinds of solar: one that adds to the existing signal from the mains, or one that is self-contained. The second kind is more complicated and therefore expensive. I wasn't aware of the distinction before, but I definitely am now.

Aren't there setups that can do both as well? i.e charge battery first and send excess to the grid?

The setups have to be separate (e.g. different outlets for mains and solar) to protect the grid.

Even a small home solar installation puts out enough power to easily kill unsuspecting maintenance personell working on the grid, for example.

So the utility company has to have 100% control over he mains at all time for safety reasons (i.e. your meter must never run backwards). If they cut the power (e.g. for maintenance or repairs), no one must be able to feed power into the grid.

That's why even if you have a battery, said battery can either feed into the grid, or be connected to separate outlets in your house, but never both at the same time.

Re: Semi-transparent solar panels allow concurrent production of crops and power

#34

Post by jameslk »

iancmceachern wrote: post #31
jameslk wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace leaves with tumbleweeds. Or whatever natural debris we have in the west. The leaves were causing damage to the solar panels. I imagine other types of debris would do the same. But I'd be happy to be wrong. Have you asked why this hasn't already been done yet? Or if it has (besides the example I provided), what was the outcome?

Have you spent much time driving in the empty areas of the west? You can go 100 miles without even seeing a tumbleweed.

I've been living in the west my whole life and have traveled between Colorado to California through Nevada, Utah, Arizona, etc 7 or 8 times, so yes I've seen an empty western road before. Tumbleweeds was tongue in cheek but there's plenty of dirt, trash and other flying debris that will get baked onto a glassy surface out southwest.

Re: Semi-transparent solar panels allow concurrent production of crops and power

#35

Post by agumonkey »

newyankee wrote: post #6

I cannot imagine the revolution that solar power will produce if it can fall another 3-5x in the next 10 years. It is already at grid parity. Although my personal hope is for storage, inverters, controllers and other technologies to get cheaper. Especially longer term storage beyond 4 hours.

When I spin thinking I see:

- information is mostly everywhere

- computing is mostly everywhere, can turn knowledge into instructions

- most machinery is accessible and can be replicated (not saying cpu fab)

- what's missing in that frame is an open faucet of clean energy

Re: Semi-transparent solar panels allow concurrent production of crops and power

#37

Post by toomuchtodo »

manfredo wrote: post #20
toomuchtodo wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s unlikely you see any fossil generation in the mix in 10 years except in the most remote of locations (with no solar or wind potential). Wind and solar are already around 2 cents/kWh utility scale, and batteries are catching up. No fossil or nuclear generation can compete with that.

> Batteries are catching up. Are they? The US consumes 11.5TWh of electricity daily. It's estimated that it needs 3 weeks if storage to get to 100% carbon free [1]. By comparison global battery production in 2019 was 300GWh [2]. Even if you factor in the fact that the curve of battery production is rising, it'd take decades to fullfil just the US's storage demands with batteries. There are other storage options like…

They are [1]. It’s a self reinforcing cycle. For example, batteries are already cheaper than most gas peakers. That demand (along with EVs demand, primarily Tesla) ramps manufacturing capacity, realizing further cost declines along the way.

Remember, the sun and wind are free once the turbines and panels are installed (both which last at least two decades). That’s what fossil and nuclear are competing against, and it’s a losing battle. Sounds like those companies that sell batteries to utilities and consumers are in a very favorable position, considering the storage requirements you note.

[1] https://about.bnef.com/blog/battery-pack-prices-fall-as-mark...

Re: Semi-transparent solar panels allow concurrent production of crops and power

#38

Post by christkv »

manfredo wrote: post #20
toomuchtodo wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s unlikely you see any fossil generation in the mix in 10 years except in the most remote of locations (with no solar or wind potential). Wind and solar are already around 2 cents/kWh utility scale, and batteries are catching up. No fossil or nuclear generation can compete with that.

> Batteries are catching up. Are they? The US consumes 11.5TWh of electricity daily. It's estimated that it needs 3 weeks if storage to get to 100% carbon free [1]. By comparison global battery production in 2019 was 300GWh [2]. Even if you factor in the fact that the curve of battery production is rising, it'd take decades to fullfil just the US's storage demands with batteries. There are other storage options like…

Or stacking blocks

https://qz.com/1355672/stacking-concrete-blocks-is-a-surpris...

Re: Semi-transparent solar panels allow concurrent production of crops and power

#39

Post by danans »

hirundo wrote: post #7
Grakel wrote: post #2

There's no shortage of open area to put solar panels. If we put a (nearly) continuous strip in every highway median, that would be a huge step forward, and still take up practically zero useable space. Even 1% of the federally owned land in the sun belt would generate an enormous amount of power.

"if the government were to take over the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in five year" -- Milton Friedman (exaggerating, somewhat) Better to put them on home roofs, and arrange for them to be owned by the homeowners, designed so that the occupants are (literally) empowered when the grid is mismanaged, as in California. On highway medians control is more centralized, and they would require more mainte…

> Better to put them on home roofs, and arrange for them to be owned by the homeowners, designed so that the occupants are (literally) empowered when the grid is mismanaged, as in California.

It turns out that the same California that you criticize now requires solar on newly built homes, just as you recommend, and much to the chagrin of people who feel like the state government is impinging on individuals' rights to build however they please.

Re: Semi-transparent solar panels allow concurrent production of crops and power

#40

Post by agumonkey »

Communitivity wrote: post #16

Not just crops and power. I know a guy whose startup is using transparent solar panels in Germany on eco-friendly buildings with grass on roofs, to get power and eco-cooling, as well as Oxygen production - at least that is how he explained it. The concept is called green-roofs. Unfortunately I don't remember his startup's name. A link with details about the concept, minus the use of transparent solar panels: https://…

Are there places to read about this field ? journals, websites, discord anything ?
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