Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

abcnews.go.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 435 posts

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#241

Post by tmp538394722 »

john_moscow wrote: post #232
notassigned wrote: post #197

I don't think it's helpful to assume the police were racist.

I've googled up the bodycam videos of the incident [0]. I think, the police started acting the way they did, because the suspect didn't stop when the police clearly asked him to do so, and pushed one of the officers when they grabbed him. It would be fair to call it racism, if there was another instance of a white suspect acting the same way, and getting treated differently. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5Ncye…

Elijah was wearing headphones. Since you’ve seen the video, how long from the moment the police are out of their cars before they put their hands on Elijah?

Would you put your hands on someone Who showed no physical resistance in that amount of time?

The Police escalate quickly, and then, since the situation has escalated, feel justified in their response, which killed Elijah. They killed Elijah.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#243

Post by tmp538394722 »

Natsu wrote: post #201
tehwebguy wrote: post #158

Police should never be permitted to direct medical professionals to do anything to a person in their custody unless it is to save their life. Medical professionals should be hyper-trained on how to tell police “hell no” and to report their requests to an independent agency for investigation. There are other types of scenarios where out of control cops bully doctors and nurses into doing illegal things, two that I hav…

It's used as a treatment for drug overdoses ("excited delerium") which appears to be why it was used here. Of course it's a catch-all term, there's no way to tell offhand just what street drugs someone is on. There has to be a reason it took half a dozen people to hold him down. Also, there's no mention in this article of police directing the paramedics to do anything. Can you point me to what gave you that idea?

Where in the world did you hear that Elijah McClain was having a drug overdose before the police showed up?!

No one has said that. You are fabricating.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#244

Post by buttholesurfer »

EVdotIO wrote: post #41

Disclaimer: There is so much that can go wrong administering drugs without somebody's medical background (like just getting the weight right in this case), random variables (say ate grapefruit beforehand), or just sheer dumb misfortune. Then there is the dystopian nature of yet another layer to diffuse responsibility. This is tragic, and I hope doesn't set precedent. All that out of the way. Why is this on here? This…

Everything is technology now. This new trend of being SJWs everywhere is quite frustrating, even as someone who supports it generally.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#245

Post by Kapura »

It's completely insane that, in America, police are allowed to direct paramedics to inject a person with _anything_. Anesthesiologists go through how many years of schooling and training? And even then, nobody is injecting kids with shit on the street.

I was first confused when I learned about the McClain story; I had known Ketamine to be a recreational drug, and i had never heard of cops injecting something into a person they were arresting before. Since I have become better educated, I am much more concerned about staying in America long-term. This is not how normal law enforcement should be operating.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#246

Post by throwanem »

john_moscow wrote: post #232
notassigned wrote: post #197

I don't think it's helpful to assume the police were racist.

I've googled up the bodycam videos of the incident [0]. I think, the police started acting the way they did, because the suspect didn't stop when the police clearly asked him to do so, and pushed one of the officers when they grabbed him. It would be fair to call it racism, if there was another instance of a white suspect acting the same way, and getting treated differently. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5Ncye…

Dude, I hit a cop with my car one time and I didn't get so much as stopped. So yeah. It's different.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#247

Post by throwawayWSQA »

dividedbyzero wrote: post #76
burfog wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cops also use pepper spray. It's against someone's will, by non-cooks, for no culinary purpose. Cops also use electric stun guns. It's against someone's will, by non-electricians, for no electronic purpose. Mind proposing an acceptable method of restraint? Go ahead, and see people tear it apart as a human rights violation. It's much like the hopeless situation in bad schools, where all possible methods of discipline…

And cops use bullets, too. Soldiers use even better bullets, and these are a super effective method of disciplining people with great longterm success in reducing repeat offenders. But the cost on the detainee (who is to be presumed innocent, who may be in distress themself, who may have a psychotic episode due to some unknown cross-reaction with medication or the like, who may be deeply scared) is much, much, much h…

1. "Soldiers use even better bullets"

Almost universally not true. The Geneva convention prohibits many types of bullets that are allowed for civilian use. Hollow points, for example. And there are good reasons why they're allowed for civilians and not war.

2. It's not fair to give us a sanctimonious lecture about how great your country's police procedures are without stating your country. Put up, or drop the lecture.

I mean, imagine the chutzpah if you're German!

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#248

Post by specialist »

GhostVII wrote: post #132

Pretty much everywhere in the world, paramedics are allowed to inject sedatives when treating a patient. Ketamine is used in many places (the US, UK, Canada, Australia, Austria) by paramedics, because it is very safe relative to other sedatives. So the main concern should whether or not police are ordering EMS to administer it when it is not actually required (police do not administer it themselves), since I don't th…

"...paramedics are allowed to inject sedatives when treating a patient."

Firstly, eliminate qualified immunity in the USA. Until everyone can be held accountable for their actions, this convo is moot.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#249

Post by notagoodidea »

jupp0r wrote: post #212
tehwebguy wrote: post #158

Police should never be permitted to direct medical professionals to do anything to a person in their custody unless it is to save their life. Medical professionals should be hyper-trained on how to tell police “hell no” and to report their requests to an independent agency for investigation. There are other types of scenarios where out of control cops bully doctors and nurses into doing illegal things, two that I hav…

On the other hand: at least they are asking medical professionals instead of giving shots themselves.

Because that would be blatantly illegal? Never stopped crappy police officiers to do crappy things but hey.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#250

Post by alchemism »

jooize wrote: post #222
alchemism wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve seen club kids go into what I can only describe as an ‘ambulatory trance state’ at the dosage levels you speak of. I talked down one or two people from completely destroying their environment while in such a state, by using deliberately de-escalatory calming techniques. I’m aghast the police would use such a substance because it is indeed a recipe for disaster when mixed with their expectations of behavior.

Where can I learn de-escalatory calming techniques?

Social workers and ER nurses, in particular, have field-tested practices for dealing with people who are anxiously disoriented — or violently psychotic - in a manner which resolves the situation peacefully.

All I can say for what I did at the time was an intuition that I was confronted with a half-tranquilized, large confused ape and so acted as to prevent them from panicking and running amok with calm words, movements, and (most importantly I suspect in that state) caring touch.

Post reply on HN