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Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

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Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#191

Post by commoner »

cgriswald wrote: post #163
mindslight wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say libertarianism is "dead" but rather is quick to fall prey to logical contradictions justifying totalitarianism, similar to the two prime time political teams. You're right that there is little difference between a corporation that one is de facto forced to interact with, and a bona fide government. For example, one can easily reframe USG as a corporation that you form a contract with by owning land, re…

Libertarian thought is complex, non-static, and (importantly), non-monolithic. This is especially true for the relationship between people, government, and corporations. The generalizing statements in this thread reject vast swaths of ideas for no reason at all; even ideas that generally agree with the ideas in the thread. My guess is most people hold in their minds a caricature of libertarianism informed either by "…

Many people associate the word "libertarian" with right-libertarianism, which is the predominant form of libertarianism in the United States. Ayn Rand's philosophy of objectivism is right-libertarian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-libertarianism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism_in_the_United_S...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivism_and_libertarianism

On the other hand, left-libertarians oppose capitalism while supporting personal property rights. Left-libertarians and right-libertarians find common ground in rejecting authoritarian governments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism

Libertarianism comprises a diverse collection of views that aim to advance individual freedom, and anyone who is not an authoritarian is likely to agree with some libertarian principles.

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#192

Post by commoner »

nodamage wrote: post #182
apatters wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I upvoted your comments based on a good faith belief that you're open to learning more about how antitrust law works. It has little to do with market share, and everything to do with a concept called "market power." Market power is the ability to coerce people into paying more for something via a mechanism other than actually offering a better product or service. A textbook example which most people would agree is ba…

> Market power is the ability to coerce people into paying more for something via a mechanism other than actually offering a better product or service. How exactly does Apple "coerce people into paying more for their phones via a mechanism other than actually offering a better product or service", and what is that mechanism? > But if a firm is able to drive up prices with impunity for any reason, it's likely they pos…

The matter under contention is the pricing of in-app purchases, not the pricing of phones. By disallowing app stores other than Apple's App Store, Apple is coercing users to pay an inflated price for in-app purchases, since it takes a 42.8% price hike to negate Apple's 30% fee.

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#193

Post by jasonlotito »

nodamage wrote: post #170
mortenjorck wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an allergy to tech analogies in general, but Apple's brick-and-mortar retail analogy is one of the worst. In any locality other than rural towns served by a single Dollar General, consumers have a choice between multiple retail outlets. If they don't like the choices at one store, they're free to shop at another. "But Android!" one might say, and once again, the analogy falls completely flat. The switching cos…

Except if having the choice of more than one app store was important to you, why did you buy an iPhone in the first place? You could have bought something else and and avoided the problem entirely.

Because some of us bought into the ecosystem early on when we believed it was going to be much more open based on what the company said. Switching now would require a large investment, and I think their is some element of wanting Apple to be true to its past promises.

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#194

Post by jasonlotito »

threeseed wrote: post #9
g_p wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your post here exemplifies why apple's behaviour is so problematic - you're left trying to adhere to a set of rules that even Apple can't manage to enforce consistently and correctly, facing the risk of having to pay an unexpected 30% tax on sales (and effectively have to raise prices accordingly). Hopefully this logic is enough to get Apple in bother during their antitrust suits and Investigations - it seems quite i…

It is not a tax on sales. It is the cost of using their channel to market. If you host the app yourself on your website then how are people going to discover it. For most developers they would buy ads or invest in content or influencer marketing. Those marketing costs are your channel to market and obviously aren't a tax. It's hilarious watching so many people on HN discuss this topic who are completely naive and ign…

Apples Ads aren’t included. You have to pay for them separately.

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#195

Post by catgary »

hackingthenews wrote: post #189
parasubvert wrote: post #153

I find the group think here to be incredible, and you all will likely be very disappointed when the legal system winds up supporting Apple. Regulating retailers because you don’t like their cut is price controls, which is completely contrary to a free market, and ultimately undermines the end user experience of having a trusted, secure store. Perhaps Google or Apple’s power is so strong as to warrant regulation - but…

What Apple and Google is doing is in many ways effectively price control and inhibits free market dynamics. For example Apple demand that app developers price their apps in the app store similar to the same service in other stores (website, Google play store, etc), even though they are taking a huge 30% cut. So Spotify can't price their product 30% more expensive in the app store, which makes the app store appear com…

That’s standard - credit card companies have similar agreements with merchants.

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#196

Post by millstone »

hackingthenews wrote: post #189
parasubvert wrote: post #153

I find the group think here to be incredible, and you all will likely be very disappointed when the legal system winds up supporting Apple. Regulating retailers because you don’t like their cut is price controls, which is completely contrary to a free market, and ultimately undermines the end user experience of having a trusted, secure store. Perhaps Google or Apple’s power is so strong as to warrant regulation - but…

What Apple and Google is doing is in many ways effectively price control and inhibits free market dynamics. For example Apple demand that app developers price their apps in the app store similar to the same service in other stores (website, Google play store, etc), even though they are taking a huge 30% cut. So Spotify can't price their product 30% more expensive in the app store, which makes the app store appear com…

> Apple demand that app developers price their apps in the app store similar to the same service in other stores

Where did you read that? I don't think that's true; for example YouTube Premium costs more through iOS IAP compared to the website. And Spotify did the same for years too.

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#197

Post by quickthrower2 »

traveler01 wrote: post #19

Apple is being too ridiculous at this point. Devs need App Store but Apple also need devs. Being so hostile is going to hurt them pretty bad, both for Apple and for Google.

I bet there are a lot of web apps that could be mobile apps too but it ain’t worth it to take the risk. That’s the BATNA.

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#198

Post by nodamage »

jasonlotito wrote: post #193
nodamage wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except if having the choice of more than one app store was important to you, why did you buy an iPhone in the first place? You could have bought something else and and avoided the problem entirely.

Because some of us bought into the ecosystem early on when we believed it was going to be much more open based on what the company said. Switching now would require a large investment, and I think their is some element of wanting Apple to be true to its past promises.

You bought your iPhone before 2008 and are still using it? If so, I'm impressed. Otherwise, Apple has been clear since the very beginning of the App Store that third-party apps require approval and can only be installed via the App Store. Why did you believe otherwise?

Third party iPhone and iPod touch applications must be approved by Apple and will be available exclusively through the App Store.

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2008/03/06Apple-Announces-iPh...

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#199

Post by jjeaff »

stephenr wrote: post #149
dboreham wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another shout out for WSL2. Feels good to have real Linux not Apple's kind of close but not quite, plus wide range of hardware to choose from and compatibility with commercial GUI apps.

... So many things wrong with this comparison. (a). WSL is just a Linux VM. You can do this on any desktop OS. If you're not using WSL, you can even do it with multiple hypervisors at once if you so wish. (b). macOS isn't, and has never tried to be, "Linux". It's POSIX.

There's a little more to wsl2 than just a VM. It's lighter and partially integrated. More like a VM running alongside windows instead of on top of windows.

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#200

Post by scarface74 »

commoner wrote: post #192
nodamage wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Market power is the ability to coerce people into paying more for something via a mechanism other than actually offering a better product or service. How exactly does Apple "coerce people into paying more for their phones via a mechanism other than actually offering a better product or service", and what is that mechanism? > But if a firm is able to drive up prices with impunity for any reason, it's likely they pos…

The matter under contention is the pricing of in-app purchases, not the pricing of phones. By disallowing app stores other than Apple's App Store, Apple is coercing users to pay an inflated price for in-app purchases, since it takes a 42.8% price hike to negate Apple's 30% fee.

So what’s the true value of those cool Carlton dance moves I can get on Fortnite? How much less would the coins and loot boxes cost? Just imagine the overhead that Epic has to charge to reproduce the $18 billion of virtual goods it sales.
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