Birth and Death of Microsoft Bing • Hacker News Board

Re: Birth and Death of Microsoft Bing

#71

Post by brudgers » Fri, Apr 08, 2011, 3:55 PM UTC

Splines wrote: post #55

brudgers wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I don't know that Bing has "failed" yet, but I highly doubt it'll be anything other than one amongst many in the pack in 5 years." For Microsoft, having a full featured reliable non-core product with measurable market share is a success because it allows Microsoft to offer vertical integration without the specter of anti-trust allegations - imagine the howling in DC and Europe if Bing controlled 70% of search (nev…

I'm not following you. I imagine that the Bing team would gladly increase their market share in exchange for the costs involved.

Not necessarily, "Bing : Microsoft" is not analogous to "Google Search : Google." Bing just needs to fill a small gap in Microsoft's total product portfolio whereas Google Search is the crown jewels for Google. In other words, Bing can be a cost center for Microsoft and still contribute to the company's bottom line by contributing to increased revenues in other areas, but if Google Search starts losing money Google is in real trouble.

So long a Bing provides meaningful statistical data regarding internet search,keeps Google from data mining searches performed in Redmond, and serves as a productive R&D platform it is successful for Microsoft because they do not need to generate significant revenue from advertising to be profitable.

Re: Birth and Death of Microsoft Bing

#72

Post by brudgers » Fri, Apr 08, 2011, 4:09 PM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #30

InclinedPlane wrote: post #22

I don't know that Bing has "failed" yet, but I highly doubt it'll be anything other than one amongst many in the pack in 5 years. Microsoft has always been good at the pivotal turnaround. Recognizing when a key moment was on the wind, mustering together a tremendous effort, making a good number of smart decisions and putting out a solid anchor product that (re)cements their position in the industry and reinvigorates…

Just to add a couple ideas to your post: > I don't know that Bing has "failed" yet Microsoft doesn't either. I have no doubt Google's search will be superseded by an even more competent product. I just doubt Microsoft is able to deliver such thing. To go against Google you either need infinitely deep pockets or a technology so disruptive that it effectively neutralizes the size advantage Google has or turns into a di…

>"I have no doubt Google's search will be superseded by an even more competent product"

I don't think it will be a matter of technical competence, but of economic competence. The achilles heal of Google's model is it's dependence on advertising and the incentive such dependence creates to skew search results and engage in "creepy" behavior with respect to individual privacy. The way in which Google monetizes search is increasingly susceptible to significant social and legal backlash. the structure of Microsoft's revenue stream is such that Bing could be adapted to the radical changes such a backlash would entail more easily than Google's data mining based revenue stream would allow Google Search to be adapted.

Re: Birth and Death of Microsoft Bing

#73

Post by kenjackson » Fri, Apr 08, 2011, 4:13 PM UTC

cicero wrote: post #34

mattmanser wrote: post #17

The whole article seems to be back to front. As far as I knew Live search was essentially failing then they made it Bing and it's started to succeed. Am I missing something here or what? I'm no expert on the history but it seems to me that the opposite of what the author is saying actually happened!

You have an outsider perspective, while the article was written from an insider's perspective. It appears that the technology team was at its peak when it changed from Live to Bing, and has declined since then. The success of Bing has been due to marketing, but without a sound technical team behind it, it's going to die.

It appears that the technology team was at its peak when it changed from Live to Bing, and has declined since then.

This is the take from one insider. I suspect if you were talk to someone else on the Bing team you may get a very different story.

Re: Birth and Death of Microsoft Bing

#74

Post by kami8845 » Fri, Apr 08, 2011, 4:21 PM UTC

parfe wrote: post #61

dvfer wrote: post #41

Bing is not really providing anything more than google's service. It only shows "big company's" routine of trying to drive others out of business. Death for Bing.

I disagree. I remembered Bing's decision engine commercials when looking for a plane ticket. Turns out that Bing is way better for flights than Google is, by far. Just try typing New York City to Los Angeles into both search engines. Bing finds what you are after and Google does not.

I prefer how Google handles that search query. If you're looking for a flight does entering 'fly' after your two destinations really hurt that much? 'to' is -more often than not - a pretty meaningless keyword, and I'm pretty sure most people don't want half of what's above the fold to be taken up by flight information if all they enter is a very general 'New York City to Los Angeles'.

Re: Birth and Death of Microsoft Bing

#75

Post by Retric » Fri, Apr 08, 2011, 4:39 PM UTC

sunchild wrote: post #33

raganwald wrote: post #12

Perhaps a bit OT, but... The post seemed to be riddled with formatting and grammar errors. This rubbed my old-school English sensibilities at first, but then I began to enjoy its rough feel. After all, it's a post about how people who worked tirelessly to bring a product to market were shipping things while the rest of Microsoft slept. The story very clearly describes a dichotomy in Microsoft's culture between proces…

I'm highly tolerant of spelling/grammar errors, normally. Who cares about "it's" vs. "its" in this context, right? But in this case, I needed to re-read every sentence. Even after re-reading it a few times, I had to guess the author's intended meaning. That is just a failure to communicate.

Really? I did not notice any ambiguity. Can you give an example?

Re: Birth and Death of Microsoft Bing

#76

Post by DarrenLehane » Fri, Apr 08, 2011, 4:43 PM UTC

raganwald wrote: post #12

Perhaps a bit OT, but... The post seemed to be riddled with formatting and grammar errors. This rubbed my old-school English sensibilities at first, but then I began to enjoy its rough feel. After all, it's a post about how people who worked tirelessly to bring a product to market were shipping things while the rest of Microsoft slept. The story very clearly describes a dichotomy in Microsoft's culture between proces…

I assume English is not his first language, as he also just made a job posting (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2422799) which has the same errors such as "din't".

Re: Birth and Death of Microsoft Bing

#77

Post by steve-howard » Fri, Apr 08, 2011, 4:43 PM UTC

jeremydavid wrote: post #20

Just thought I'd let you know your text rendered very small on my browser, and the light grey quotes were almost unreadable.

Indeed, I have no idea why bloggers are so insistent on using gray-on-white quotations.

Re: Birth and Death of Microsoft Bing

#78

Post by aChrisSmith » Fri, Apr 08, 2011, 4:52 PM UTC

rorrr wrote: post #70

> Bing was extremely lavish in compensation, making offers to the best hackers for $90K/year Is this a joke?

No. Remember the article talked about poaching students right out of college. $90k a year isn't much for an experienced developer, however right out of college (and at the time) that was 10-20k more than they could expect joining another company.

Re: Birth and Death of Microsoft Bing

#79

Post by BCM43 » Fri, Apr 08, 2011, 5:02 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #75

sunchild wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm highly tolerant of spelling/grammar errors, normally. Who cares about "it's" vs. "its" in this context, right? But in this case, I needed to re-read every sentence. Even after re-reading it a few times, I had to guess the author's intended meaning. That is just a failure to communicate.

Really? I did not notice any ambiguity. Can you give an example?

I could not figure out "(Don't be evil, was a joke?)".

Re: Birth and Death of Microsoft Bing

#80

Post by myprasanna » Fri, Apr 08, 2011, 5:20 PM UTC

raganwald wrote: post #12

Perhaps a bit OT, but... The post seemed to be riddled with formatting and grammar errors. This rubbed my old-school English sensibilities at first, but then I began to enjoy its rough feel. After all, it's a post about how people who worked tirelessly to bring a product to market were shipping things while the rest of Microsoft slept. The story very clearly describes a dichotomy in Microsoft's culture between proces…

I'm the author of this post and by no means I expected this to be on the top of HN today. It was a surprise. I din't do any good editing on this, since it was my personal blog and I had sent to Michael Arrington, who wanted to edit/publish it. For some reason, he backed out at the last moment and it din't make it to TC. Welcome to the world of citizen journalism.

Sorry about the typos/errors. I'm looking into this now :)