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Lori Loughlin and husband sentenced in college bribery scandal

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Re: Lori Loughlin and husband sentenced in college bribery scandal

#111

Post by sirspacey »

newacct583 wrote: post #75
microtherion wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USC had, as of last year, a $5.7B endowment. I suspect they don't really adjust their tuition based on the level of donations they get.

Not in the sense of accounting balance, no. But at elite schools, elimination of tuition need is absolutely a core goal of finance and fundraising. I think there's way too much cynicism in the comments here. These schools really do take their social responsibilities seriously and really do offer and prioritize student aid. And to the extent they can't, it's because they simply don't have the cash available. Giving to…

Having worked with university foundations for many years, you are right - they do aspire to this. The rank and file believe it.

But it’s not altruistic, they are getting paid. They prefer donations because, in our gilded age, they are a more reliable source of tuition dollars.

Higher ed today fails a very basic test - they have no practice around student success. Startups like SkillShare started with that in mind.

Many universities have launched initiatives and programs in the past few years to drive “student success,” but they are entirely dependent on outside providers - whose recommendations they actively resist. It is bananas.

Universities’ measure of student success? Do students drop out.

Once again, entirely self-serving.

Talk to veteran higher ed faculty & staff - they all know it.

Universities don’t actually know what their value is, so they just keep trying to pretend to offer what people wanted in times past in an era that has no use for any of it. They are a brutal application of enlightenment thinking in a world that does not play by those rules.

They know they are playing a smoke & mirrors game. The average student is 27 and has a kid, yet they still sell the “college experience,” mostly to foreign nationals with rich parents. It is corrupt from beginning to end.

Do not pay for college, kids. Read “DIY University.”

Re: Lori Loughlin and husband sentenced in college bribery scandal

#112

Post by randycupertino »

andreilys wrote: post #29
gonehome wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it feels more like they're getting punished for getting a discount and not giving the universities the bribe directly (likely because the actual 'fee' for getting your kid in is more than they could afford). I was similarly bothered by this, and by the fact that nobody was worried that these students would fail out given that they cheated their way in. Says a lot about the actual signalling value vs. educationa…

“ I was similarly bothered by this, and by the fact that nobody was worried that these students would fail out given that they cheated their way in.” You would be surprised at how difficult it is to fail out of programs. From what I’ve seen profs have an unwritten rule to not fail students from school admin, otherwise they might complain and so it’s easier to give a D than fail them completely.

Hey now, it's "Cs earn degrees," not "Ds earn degrees!"

Re: Lori Loughlin and husband sentenced in college bribery scandal

#113

Post by randycupertino »

toast0 wrote: post #40
andreilys wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ I was similarly bothered by this, and by the fact that nobody was worried that these students would fail out given that they cheated their way in.” You would be surprised at how difficult it is to fail out of programs. From what I’ve seen profs have an unwritten rule to not fail students from school admin, otherwise they might complain and so it’s easier to give a D than fail them completely.

That depends on the school. My 4-year would put you on academic suspension if your GPA was too low, which ended with you kicked out (well forced to take a 1 year break and have to ask to return... Not a lot of people did, especially since credits expired after 7 years). Although, I did get a D in a class I should have failed by the curve because I didn't write up all the lab reports, but I did well on all the tests a…

> pre-baccalaruate math at a CSU and gets all kinds of grief from administration for failing kids who don't earn a passing grade.

Hey I took pre-bacc math! At a Cal JCC but still... even my community college math classes were way harder than my "prestigious" undergrad institution which like Caltech is basically impossible to fail out from. Especially if you play a sport! Hockey and football teams got 1 page cheat sheets on exams which was outrageous.

Re: Lori Loughlin and husband sentenced in college bribery scandal

#115

Post by ysavir »

onemiketwelve wrote: post #107
glaucon wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally, unless they're doing time it's just a business expense.

Which is why I like the concept of percentage fines rather than constants

Fine idea on paper, but it opens up the doors for all sorts of accounting games. You have to keep in mind that the wealthy will always afford more capable and less ethical lawyers and accountants than the public.

Re: Lori Loughlin and husband sentenced in college bribery scandal

#116

Post by fortran77 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #55
simonh wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s maybe fair, but just a matter of semantics. It doesn’t change the fact that a $10m endowment can generate enough income to support a handful of full cost academic scholarships in perpetuity. Anyone not seeing the difference between that and a sports coach pocketing a few tens of thousands of dollars is suffering from severe ideological impairment.

It’s not semantics when erroneous terminology nets someone a few million in tax deductions. A donation is eligible for tax deductions. Payment in lieu of acceptance for child or increased probability of acceptance for child is not tax deductible. A sports coach pocketing a few thousand dollars, versus a much wealthier person pocketing a few million from all taxpayers. Where is the ideological impairment?

Ask someone who knows how taxes work what a 'tax deduction' is. You'll be surprised!

Re: Lori Loughlin and husband sentenced in college bribery scandal

#117

Post by lotsofpulp »

fortran77 wrote: post #116
lotsofpulp wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not semantics when erroneous terminology nets someone a few million in tax deductions. A donation is eligible for tax deductions. Payment in lieu of acceptance for child or increased probability of acceptance for child is not tax deductible. A sports coach pocketing a few thousand dollars, versus a much wealthier person pocketing a few million from all taxpayers. Where is the ideological impairment?

Ask someone who knows how taxes work what a 'tax deduction' is. You'll be surprised!

Perhaps you could elucidate me as to how money given to a school to secure a spot for your child should reduce your taxable income by fraudulently categorizing it as a donation.

I’m pretty sure if I start deducting expenses from my taxable income that aren’t deductible, I would be accused of tax evasion and therefore stealing from all other taxpayers.

Re: Lori Loughlin and husband sentenced in college bribery scandal

#118

Post by mguerville »

andreilys wrote: post #29
gonehome wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it feels more like they're getting punished for getting a discount and not giving the universities the bribe directly (likely because the actual 'fee' for getting your kid in is more than they could afford). I was similarly bothered by this, and by the fact that nobody was worried that these students would fail out given that they cheated their way in. Says a lot about the actual signalling value vs. educationa…

“ I was similarly bothered by this, and by the fact that nobody was worried that these students would fail out given that they cheated their way in.” You would be surprised at how difficult it is to fail out of programs. From what I’ve seen profs have an unwritten rule to not fail students from school admin, otherwise they might complain and so it’s easier to give a D than fail them completely.

I’m an adjunct at a top 30 b school (not US but top 30 global), and I tried to fail a student and the administration made it pretty clear that wasn’t going to happen. I don’t even think he had undergraduate freshman level of business acumen, let alone MBA level.

Re: Lori Loughlin and husband sentenced in college bribery scandal

#119

Post by samatman »

ativzzz wrote: post #63
rumcajz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am from Slovakia and the country is pretty corrupt. But I feel that the moral boundary is somewhat different. In Eastern Europe, preferring your friends and family is more acceptable, whereas in the US it seems to be stuff that could be classified as, maybe, "lobbying" or "ecnomics".

The difference I've noticed between American corruption and Eastern European corruption, is that you need to spend a lot more money to be corrupt in the US. To get basic things done in Russia, like official paperwork, basic government services, or dealing with cops, it always helped to grease the wheels in some way. None of that really works in the US, you need to spend a lot more to be involved in corruption, and ev…

Definitely.

I say this a lot: in many ways, I would rather be pulled over by the police in Mexico than the United States.

In Mexico, I know what they want: money. I know about how much they want (more, because I'm a gringo), I know that if I relax, keep my hands visible, and reach for my wallet when the time comes, I'll be on my way.

In the US, who knows what the police want. I have to actively represent my social class to avoid a delay while they fetch dogs and shake down my car; I'm leaning on my pale skin to avoid all sorts of unpleasantness, and if they're behind quota, I might get an expensive ticket which I have to return to that jurisdiction to contest, or just pay.

The US has, in many ways, the worst of both worlds: corrupt, but in an illegible, confusing, class-bound, and expensive way.

Re: Lori Loughlin and husband sentenced in college bribery scandal

#120

Post by ativzzz »

samatman wrote: post #119
ativzzz wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference I've noticed between American corruption and Eastern European corruption, is that you need to spend a lot more money to be corrupt in the US. To get basic things done in Russia, like official paperwork, basic government services, or dealing with cops, it always helped to grease the wheels in some way. None of that really works in the US, you need to spend a lot more to be involved in corruption, and ev…

Definitely. I say this a lot: in many ways, I would rather be pulled over by the police in Mexico than the United States. In Mexico, I know what they want: money. I know about how much they want (more, because I'm a gringo), I know that if I relax, keep my hands visible, and reach for my wallet when the time comes, I'll be on my way. In the US, who knows what the police want. I have to actively represent my social cl…

I can't say I agree in the slightest. Corrupt third world cops are far worse than US cops (maybe not if you're black but that's a different issue, and i'm sure you'd get even worse treatment being black in Mexico). I would much rather deal with US cops, who you can record (and often are recording themselves) within more or less a functional government system than with a bunch of vigilantes who probably want money but also they can do pretty much whatever they want with zero reprecussions or accountability (yea yea you can point to the US and say the same thing but clearly you have zero experience dealing with third world cops based on your comment. They are the worst of US cops taken to the extreme)

I have a Mexican friend who was drugged, beaten and robbed by the police in Mexico. Would they treat me differently for being a gringo? I don't know, but I would much rather roll the roulette of getting a ticket that is documented and is an inconvenience vs dealing with a cowboy system.

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