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Blockchain, the Solution for Almost Nothing

thecorrespondent.com

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Re: Blockchain, the Solution for Almost Nothing

#151
post #139

I'm really surprised by how uneducated most of HN are about blockchain. This means we're still early. Few big things that are coming out of blockchain; 1) ICO - a way to raise money in a distributed manner outside the traditional financial system (think Banks and VCs). 2) Defi - a way to borrow and lend (and much more) outside the traditional financial system. One example, Banks get as much as 16-20% return on your d…

What is an ICO really - just a company minting tokens for people that they can exchange for something. They're not using any of the properties of blockchain, and no one is running nodes except for the company itself. They should just sell digital tokens via traditional ecommerce methods - nothing about ICOs depends on or takes advantage of being on a blockchain.

Again there are many different types of tokens that do many different things. One example, there are tokens that help secure the network (as in proof of stake) and in return you get fees (aka yield on your investment). This is just one example. There are many others, like lending out USDC (token pegged to USD) -- you can actually get 10% yield. You can also provide liquidity in liquidity pools and earn fees (again yield on your money at risk).

Re: Blockchain, the Solution for Almost Nothing

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What percentage of defi assets are used for the purposes you described vs speculation? It's difficult to analyze rigorously but I could give you a lower bound on speculation by looking at interday altcoin movement on makerdao and compound. I think it's completely fair to characterize defi as "predominantly speculation", which I've editorialized into "unregulated gambling".

> I think it's completely fair to characterize defi as "predominantly speculation", which I've editorialized into "unregulated gambling". You replied to my other comment, so this is exhibit A of a useless higher standard levied exclusively on the blockchain space, without acknowledging every other asset class. Even with you not considering that a problem, and congratulations for that, the point in caring deflects awa…

Decentralized lending is ~100% used right now for taking leveraged positions. Interest is paid because people have different beliefs about the value of the leveraged asset. I call that gambling. It's a personal choice if you went to call it something different.

Re: Blockchain, the Solution for Almost Nothing

#153

Looking at all the comments here I have a single response to most of them: I'll call it a solution when it is implemented. You can talk all you want about solutions to some of the (minor) problems addressed here (ignoring the rest of the problems) but unless it is in use then the article's commentary still stands. Unless it has a ton of users, the article's commentary still stands. If you really do believe in block c…

Blockchain is a solution in search of a problem.

From what I can tell it's a solution in search of funding. The problem is something they will fix later, often by pivoting away from the blockchain.

Re: Blockchain, the Solution for Almost Nothing

#154
post #139

I'm really surprised by how uneducated most of HN are about blockchain. This means we're still early. Few big things that are coming out of blockchain; 1) ICO - a way to raise money in a distributed manner outside the traditional financial system (think Banks and VCs). 2) Defi - a way to borrow and lend (and much more) outside the traditional financial system. One example, Banks get as much as 16-20% return on your d…

Many benefits in voting? Like once you figure out who is who, everybody can know for whom everybody voted?

1) Not all voting needs privacy 2) For stronger privacy, I would look into reading more about; a) Xpub, Ypub and Zpub and UTXO b) Mimblewimble c) Monero and PIVC

Re: Blockchain, the Solution for Almost Nothing

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's completely fair to characterize defi as "predominantly speculation", which I've editorialized into "unregulated gambling". You replied to my other comment, so this is exhibit A of a useless higher standard levied exclusively on the blockchain space, without acknowledging every other asset class. Even with you not considering that a problem, and congratulations for that, the point in caring deflects awa…

Decentralized lending is ~100% used right now for taking leveraged positions. Interest is paid because people have different beliefs about the value of the leveraged asset. I call that gambling. It's a personal choice if you went to call it something different.

I don't draw distinctions between negative expected value table games and positive expected value financial games, and by that standard Mortgages and insurance is gambling and there is nothing wrong with that.

My point is that the nomenclature isn't useful because its not different than other asset classes, but absolutely is used as an indictment against this asset class and market. Whether you and I are personally pragmatic about it as a personal choice or not.

Re: Blockchain, the Solution for Almost Nothing

#156
Honest question. When someone says the blockchain can be used for anything OTHER than financial transactions, for example - supply chain, health records, etc. what is the actual underlying data that will be stored on the blockchain?

When it comes to a quasi-banking or quasi-wallet system, I find it easy to visualize that the blockchain holds accounts with balances, and there are transactions which move money between accounts. Blockchain's decentralization and write-only properties help because no single entity can make your money disappear, and no entity can rollback a transaction.

What is going on with other use-cases of blockchain? What does a supply-chain system actually store on the blockchain? The SKU list? The price of SKUs? The stock level of each SKU in each warehouse? What?

Re: Blockchain, the Solution for Almost Nothing

#157
post #139

I'm really surprised by how uneducated most of HN are about blockchain. This means we're still early. Few big things that are coming out of blockchain; 1) ICO - a way to raise money in a distributed manner outside the traditional financial system (think Banks and VCs). 2) Defi - a way to borrow and lend (and much more) outside the traditional financial system. One example, Banks get as much as 16-20% return on your d…

What is an ICO really - just a company minting tokens for people that they can exchange for something. They're not using any of the properties of blockchain, and no one is running nodes except for the company itself. They should just sell digital tokens via traditional ecommerce methods - nothing about ICOs depends on or takes advantage of being on a blockchain.

Just an illegal securities offering.

We have laws for a reason.

Re: Blockchain, the Solution for Almost Nothing

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

agreed. Here "they'll" is not Vitalik/co, it's in control of the node validators, ofcourse you are affected by this if are in disagreement of the majority. The reason why it will be difficult to pull off a hard fork today[1]. See UASF for the success in community governance. This is good proof that the users are always in control, not miners or Vitalik. [1] https://www.coindesk.com/binance-may-consider-bitcoin-rollba…

The house has 435 members. the senate has 100. nobody thinks the 535 members are effective. enjoy your user uncontrolled anarchy do you have any response to > 50% attacks?

51% is possible, but it only leads to chain reorgs, not the actual consensus rules.

In practice the actual cost and the uncertainty of an attack ensures that it is almost never attempted in practice for secure* blockchains:

1. You would need much greater hash rate share than 50% for good chances(forgoing the block rewards $$ incase of failure!), the social coordination is the bigger challenge, see mining pool distribution[1].

[1] https://btc.com/stats/pool

Re: Blockchain, the Solution for Almost Nothing

#159

Looking at all the comments here I have a single response to most of them: I'll call it a solution when it is implemented. You can talk all you want about solutions to some of the (minor) problems addressed here (ignoring the rest of the problems) but unless it is in use then the article's commentary still stands. Unless it has a ton of users, the article's commentary still stands. If you really do believe in block c…

The shifting goalposts of this argument have been interesting to watch over the last 3-4 years.

Stablecoins: I remember plenty of commenters being quite certain that volatility made cryptocurrency unusable. And yet a short time later we have successful decentralized stable coins.

DeFi: Just in the past months Uniswap has rivaled centralized exchange volume as a decentralized exchange. It's permissionless composability appears to be spinning off an interesting group of experimental financial instruments.

These are a couple huge concrete examples of successes that make the ~show me something real~ argument difficult for me to accept. Nobody has built skyscrapers yet, but skyscrapers aren't built in a day. We have some pretty solid architecture going up it seems.

And if you've been following the space long enough most of this article is tedious and inconsequential:

1) "For instance, hundreds of links to child pornography and revenge porn were placed in the bitcoin blockchain by malicious users."

This is a tired argument from 2013 which nobody cares about: https://www.wired.com/story/why-porn-on-the-blockchain-wont-...

2) "Also, in a blockchain you aren’t anonymous, but “pseudonymous”: your identity is linked to a number, and if someone can link your name to that number, you’re screwed. Everything you got up to on that blockchain is visible to everyone."

Blockchains have many different properties. Some have more stringent privacy measures than others. Many HN readers are likely familiar with privacy coins employing things like zero-knowledge proofs or ring signatures. Not to mention the burgeoning research into the implementations of homomorphic encryption. How about Harvard putting your genome on the blockchain in such a way where you retain full control over it's rights? Doesn't sound completely useless to me: https://nebula.org/whole-genome-sequencing/

3) "The fact that no one is in charge and nothing can be modified also means that mistakes cannot be corrected. A bank can reverse a payment request. This is impossible for bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. So anything that has been stolen will stay stolen."

First of all huge amounts of digital theft occurs today that goes unreversed. Also infrastructure reducing errors in cryptocurrency is being improved all the time. Transaction finality has cons but also pros and can be modified. And one can also imagine insurance for these types of losses becoming commonplace.

4) "And then there’s the environmental problem."

This is probably the most legitimate concern so far. All I can say is I hope we get serious about investing in clean energy production as a country/globe. Many things use energy, including cryptocurrency, and that isn't stopping anytime soon whether we like it or not.

5) His complaint that a specific project is not using the blockchain correctly and individuals couldn't explain the blockchain well isn't very convincing.

Of course lots of experimentation will fail. Pets.com didn't make the internet wrong. And even the experts have trouble describing possibilities that don't exist yet. If that isn't reminiscent of the early days of the internet then I don't know what is. If you've seen Bill Gates get mocked by Letterman while trying to describe the early internet then you understand this difficulty.

It's worth remembering that this area is still incredibly young. If you can't at least see the potential then maybe you aren't looking in the right places. Like here: https://a16z.com/2018/02/10/crypto-readings-resources/

Re: Blockchain, the Solution for Almost Nothing

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Number mobility between Indian telecoms runs on private blockchain. AFAIK it is live and actively used. BC solves a problem there because operating a database for that scale would be very complicated. So every telco has their own copy that get synced via a consensus mechanism and signed transactions

> BC solves a problem there because operating a database for that scale would be very complicated. Would it, though? Google tells me that India has a population of around 1.4 billion people. Let's assume each person has one phone number, and each phone number requires one kilobyte of number-mobility-related data. Then the database would need to store 1.4 terabytes of information. 1.4 terabytes doesn't seem like an im…

I don't think it is the size that is the problem. I imagine it is like a routing table, keeping track which number is managed by which operator, and if India has number portability, there needs to be a transactional method to update it that is shared by all operators. I could imagine this being done with a blockchain.

Or for that matter, recording of call details for billing between operators?

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