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WordPressiOS Locked by App Store

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Re: WordPressiOS Locked by App Store

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how that's possible from his comment: > If you don't know that, it is not allowed to sell for more in iOS than in your site, and the app will get banned for attempting that He seems to believe that Apple explicitly bans apps from charging more for iOS subscriptions / IAPs than they do elsewhere (e.g. purchasing the subscription on their website), but I can find no evidence to support this, and a lot of ev…

They do so implicit, then moment is visible to the user that they can buy thinking cheaper elsewhere Apple will cause trouble. I.e. you are not allowed to be transparent with pricing.

This is literally not true: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24239143

Re: WordPressiOS Locked by App Store

#183
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They openly encourage users to submit contributions in the form of pull requests ^1; they seem to accept pull requests without any special statement of licensing contrary to the GPLv2 repo license ^2; and, they do not openly state in the GitHub repo's Contributor Guidelines any CLA requirement that would permit them to relicense GPLv2 contributions that they merge ^3. (IANYL) ^1 https://apps.wordpress.com/contribute/…

The point is that Apple doesn't care if there's GPL code, so it doesn't matter if they "realize" as you said in your original comment. If anything, the project contributors could sue Automattic for violating the terms of their contribution.

[deleted]

Re: WordPressiOS Locked by App Store

#184
post #113

From the replies (@mysl_co): > Hey Matt, When I open the Help Center from the app, I can get guidance about upgrading to one of your paid plans. If I tap on “Plans” as seen the screenshot, the app opens Safari and shows the plans. This is a violation according to App Store Review Guidelines. > Here is the relevant term that your app violated: 3.1.3(a) Apps may allow a user to access previously purchased content or co…

Ah this is it right here. I had been very confused as to why Apple made this move. This is at least consistent with their past actions. But yeah the lack of ability to link to web based payment for subscription plans or even mention it will probably be something that has to go from the app store’s terms. It’s bad for both users and developers. The situation is confusing for users. Not all apps have margins that can s…

It is antithetical for apple to create a for-profit store which allows for all avenues for profit to be skipped.

Apple's take is typically one of a referral/marketing relationship, such as how they charge different rates for acquiring a new customer subscription (30% for the first year) vs maintaining a customer subscription (15% for additional years) or having a customer come in through another subscription channel (0%).

To prevent abuse (from Apple's perspective), they mandate that the in-app subscription and purchasing be available and 'encouraged' (as in, not actively discouraged through referring to any price difference from other channels as a 'tax', or linking to other channels rather than offering in-app options).

A lot of the recent news (such as the Hey email app fiasco) unfortunately come from developers trying to interpolate what is acceptable through other examples in the App Store, rather than reading the terms they have with Apple. IMHO different handling of different apps is actually due to the various business models producing a very 'jaggy' line around in-app purchasing and subscription requirements. For instance, Hey decided rather than supporting in-app subscriptions as an option, they would provide a 'free' service tier - but this does mean their app is restricted from pushing the user to a paid subscription tier, including indirectly via links to the hey.com website.

Developers often look at very popular apps which have the ability to publish with no functionality without an out-of-app account with external purchases and/or subscriptions. However, these apps are actually limited to a few types of products, so called 'reader' apps where presumably the user equates the products with consumption of already purchased/rented physical goods (music, movies, television episodes, books, magazines, etc). Presumably this exemption both came from the popularity of large apps published before in-app purchasing was added to the system, that Apple themselves had spent a lot of time implying their various media stores were for "purchasing" media just like in the physical world, and that limitations that would effectively prohibit the use of systems such as Kindle and Amazon Music would create antitrust issues.

Apple obviously is not willing to voluntarily give up any territory along this line of exemptions, which is why other services (such as email accounts or blog hosting) are not considered part of this "reader" exemption. Also obviously, it is also really unfortunate that this complicates what business models are acceptable when publishing on the App Store.

Re: WordPressiOS Locked by App Store

#185
post #5

I know I really don't matter to Apple, but this walled garden and app store dictatorship is what finally made me move away from iOS to Android last year. I had used Android in the past, but it was with Samsung Galaxy's which where very bloated and awful when compared to Apple. But when a friend told me that Samsung just ruin Android [1] and I should try an actual Google phone, I bought a Pixel and it's honestly great…

Just so you know, your Pixel also has a bunch of binary blobs that track you. Google Play services track nearly everything on the device with system level access. I switched to an iPhone a few years ago to get further from Google, but the crap with the App Store is getting so out of hand now. My next device will probably be a Pine Phone.

If you really want to, atleast on a pixel phone you could unlock your bootloader and put 3rd part open source OS like Graphene OS, Lineage OS or Heck even an AOSP rom

Re: WordPressiOS Locked by App Store

#186
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I were in a position where Apple is forcing me to pay a 30% tax, I would literally add "30% Apple Tax" to the check out screen on top of the regular fees to make consumers aware. Course I'm sure Apple wouldn't like this at all either. They straight up won't allow you to do this.... I've tried before, and got a call from the Apple Reviewer to say that they won't allow anything like this to be published.

Twitch does this blatantly. I think they’re able to skirt the rules because of being an Amazon company. A subscription on the web is 4.99 and the same subscription via the official twitch iOS app is 5.99.

Any discount is enticing, but I wonder how many really go through the effort of -

1. Searching, Opening the web page in Safari.

2. Signing-in.

3. Updating personal details.

4. Updating credit card details.

5. Making the payment.

Instead of clicking a button to save $1?

P.S. I would.

Re: WordPressiOS Locked by App Store

#187
post #113

From the replies (@mysl_co): > Hey Matt, When I open the Help Center from the app, I can get guidance about upgrading to one of your paid plans. If I tap on “Plans” as seen the screenshot, the app opens Safari and shows the plans. This is a violation according to App Store Review Guidelines. > Here is the relevant term that your app violated: 3.1.3(a) Apps may allow a user to access previously purchased content or co…

Ah this is it right here. I had been very confused as to why Apple made this move. This is at least consistent with their past actions. But yeah the lack of ability to link to web based payment for subscription plans or even mention it will probably be something that has to go from the app store’s terms. It’s bad for both users and developers. The situation is confusing for users. Not all apps have margins that can s…

> I think if Apple had a flat 15% for subscriptions they’d still get a fair bit of usage, as there are big conversion advantages to using the IAP system. They might even get more revenue by attracting dev’s with reasonable terms, growing the amount of subscription apps using.

As a personal aside, the 15% rate is a bit odd in the App Store, as someone loses money on my subscriptions there. My personal App Store account is funded heavily by gift cards bought at 15-20% off, and I strongly suspect based on deals I've seen over the years that merchants have historically gotten a 15% cut on gift cards sold.

I also have been trying to figure out whether this has changed recently, as Apple has consolidated their "App Store" gift card with the retail "Apple Store" gift card - the same gift card can be used for movies, subscriptions, or toward new headphones. Coinciding with this, all of my channels for purchasing gift cards at discounted rates removed their card displays.

This could very well be part of a coordinated effort to reduce the average cost of IAP to be capable of offering a lower rate around in-app purchases. It could also be Apple realizing they are now giving up significant profit on people applying these gift cards toward Apple-run services, like Apple Music or Arcade.

Re: WordPressiOS Locked by App Store

#188
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple enforce the rules capriciously, and change them on a whim. Almost certainly, they allow Spotify and the NYT because iOS customers and potential customers would object too much if they were removed from the store. A well as the 30% tax making all apps worse in quality by removing money from development, the unpredictableness and unfairness destroys many businesses before they even start.

So even though I pointed to two well known cases where that isn’t true, you’re getting your information from where exactly? Yes and the 30% cut is moving money from poor Epic’s pockets so they can’t sell virtual coins for dance moves. Most money on the App Store comes from whales playing pay to win games like Candy Crush. You have no proof - not in the rules that are published or anywhere else. You can simply go to t…

You're right, I don't have tangible evidence of specifically disallowing charging different amounts on different platforms.

It's possible I've conflated that with not being able to call out the charge difference (e.g. by using the words "Apple Tax" on the payment page), and not being able to link to other payment methods (e.g. on web), which massively devalue any benefit from charging more.

I agree that Epic are in it to line already rich pockets, and extra money wouldn't improve their service. There are lots of smaller developers where an extra ~42% revenue would make a huge difference, and charging more doesn't work as the customer is price sensitive.

Re: WordPressiOS Locked by App Store

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are betting on the fact that arent a majority in any space. Its the best situation for them, then dont have majority market share but make the most revenue. They see Google being split up and therefore being the only game in town.

It bugs me how this is an argument in "app store is not a monopoly". App stores (both Google and Apple) have a huge profit margin which is based on abusing it's position and they are milking the fact that creating competition would cost billions of dollars - this is exactly the situation where a pure market situation ends up being sub-optimal and hurting the consumers. Consider what would happen if Mastercard and Vis…

Credit card companies.... already have those rules. No store can just offer a cheaper cash price. It’s in the agreements.

Re: WordPressiOS Locked by App Store

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be more because Epic is forcing their hand. Up to this point, Apple either just nudged smaller players or secretly negotiated deals with larger ones. With Epic shining a light on this, Apple has to more blatantly enforce this across the board. Now, in a legal setting, Epic can't point out how inconsistent Apple is with this policy.

> Now, in a legal setting, Epic can't point out how inconsistent Apple is with this policy. Well, except they can point at Amazon, who only pays a 15% cut: https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/20/21378156/apple-news-publi...

For what it is worth, Apple _does_ have this arrangement with at least one other company. It is however a partnership deal with extremely specific terms: - The app must be a video subscription app (which can also provide purchases and rentals) - You must support iOS, iPadOS, and tvOS versions of the app - You must integrate into the Apple TV app and into Siri search and playback APIs - You must allow the user to subscribe through Apple, which will result in a 15% cut of the subscription fee (in this case, Apple gets 15% of the cost of Amazon Prime) - Additional purchases made against an apple-backed subscription must be in-app purchases, of which Apple gets a 15% cut (so renting a recent movie or subscribing to Showtime would result in a 15% revenue cut) - (AFAICT) Purchases/subscriptions/rentals against an account with existing billing information are not subject to any Apple revenue share - (AFAICT) Account management such as configuring or troubleshooting payment options for externally subscribed accounts must be outside of the app.

I imagine Amazon suspects that they have enough people who have already purchased prime that the in-app purchase usage won't be a significant revenue drain - and I imagine that Apple has a contract with terms specifically to prevent Amazon "pulling an Epic" should it turn out that their assumption of subscription percentages be wrong.

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