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Lori Loughlin and husband sentenced in college bribery scandal

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Re: Lori Loughlin and husband sentenced in college bribery scandal

#21

I have a very hard time getting even remotely upset about the college bribery scandal when it's both legal and encouraged for the truly rich to get their failsons 'legacy admissions' at selective colleges by donating multiple millions to the institutions. The people who have been prosecuted as part of this scandal aren't being prosecuted for devaluing earned degrees at selective colleges; they're being prosecuted for…

Setting aside the question of whether Lori and her husband are truly rich or not, you don't like that super rich people openly make donations to get their kids into school they don't deserve to be in so you're okay with other rich people cheating too? I honestly don't understand the logic behind your comment, shouldn't you be upset about both?

Re: Lori Loughlin and husband sentenced in college bribery scandal

#22
post #15

I have hard time understanding what goes for the bribery in US. Apparently, a lot of stuff that would be considered corruption in Europe is just business as normal in the US. In this particular case I would guess that what they did would be considered OK. Apparently it wasn't. Can someone from the US comment on where the boundary between what's OK and what's not lies?

This is a typical comment of a Western European.

I know, you would love to forget that Greece and Bulgaria are in Europe.

However... they are.

Re: Lori Loughlin and husband sentenced in college bribery scandal

#23

I have a very hard time getting even remotely upset about the college bribery scandal when it's both legal and encouraged for the truly rich to get their failsons 'legacy admissions' at selective colleges by donating multiple millions to the institutions. The people who have been prosecuted as part of this scandal aren't being prosecuted for devaluing earned degrees at selective colleges; they're being prosecuted for…

Yeah, it feels more like they're getting punished for getting a discount and not giving the universities the bribe directly (likely because the actual 'fee' for getting your kid in is more than they could afford).

I was similarly bothered by this, and by the fact that nobody was worried that these students would fail out given that they cheated their way in.

Says a lot about the actual signalling value vs. educational value of the universities (and the lottery that is admissions).

On a tangential note, Lisa Brennan-Jobs' really great memoir "Small Fry" talks about her experience with this a bit. She dreamed of going to Harvard and during the admissions interview it didn't seem to be going anywhere until she quietly mentioned that her dad founded a computer company (the interviewer asked which one which prompted Lisa to say Apple at which point the dense interviewer figured out she was Steve Jobs' daughter) - and then the interviewer left the room for a time.

When the interviewer came back she was smiling and generally a lot more engaged. Lisa went to Harvard.

College admissions is an unfair system in a billion different ways, I hope ISAs like Lambda School end up replacing a lot of it for most people. Lori Loughlin and the actors cheated the system, but it's weird to me that they got in trouble because they didn't cheat in the right way.

You need to be rich enough to pay a large enough bribe to the school directly. If that fails, hopefully you have a famous father.

Otherwise it's a lottery.

[Edit]: For those arguing paying the school bribe is different because other students benefit, I'd argue there should be at least some transparency in this process. If admissions slots are for sale, let the public see the price (instead the schools pretend otherwise).

Re: Lori Loughlin and husband sentenced in college bribery scandal

#24

Stiffer sentence than Felicity Huffman, who got 14 days (she served 11), 30k fine, 250 hours of community service.

Didn't Felicity plea bargain pretty quickly and accept her fate? Lori refused the initial plea bargain to which the prosecutors responded by adding more charges. Oops!

To a non-USAian such as myself it's just so marvellous that a case involving, a sort of, corruption has the resulting penalty affected by a "plea bargain".

"Plea bargains", a strange mixture of government approved gambling and trial by ordeal making a travesty of the justice system.

Re: Lori Loughlin and husband sentenced in college bribery scandal

#25
post #15

I have hard time understanding what goes for the bribery in US. Apparently, a lot of stuff that would be considered corruption in Europe is just business as normal in the US. In this particular case I would guess that what they did would be considered OK. Apparently it wasn't. Can someone from the US comment on where the boundary between what's OK and what's not lies?

> where the boundary between what's OK and what's not lies? It scales proportional to your wealth. The varsity blues parents were just too poor to issue a proper bribe.

I've meant what is considered morally acceptable by an average American. I guess that you are describing who manages to get away with the corruption, rather than asserting that bribery by the rich is considered more acceptable that the bribery by the poor.

Re: Lori Loughlin and husband sentenced in college bribery scandal

#26
post #8
post #2

seems silly to send people to prison for this

Eh. On the one hand, I agree. On the other hand, the wealthy have proved that unless prison is a possible punishment, they're willing and eager to repeatedly pay away their crimes.

Totally, unless they're doing time it's just a business expense.

Re: Lori Loughlin and husband sentenced in college bribery scandal

#27

I have a very hard time getting even remotely upset about the college bribery scandal when it's both legal and encouraged for the truly rich to get their failsons 'legacy admissions' at selective colleges by donating multiple millions to the institutions. The people who have been prosecuted as part of this scandal aren't being prosecuted for devaluing earned degrees at selective colleges; they're being prosecuted for…

Yes but "bribing" the college directly with donations subsidizes the cost of tuition for everyone else. Students don't benefit if the donations go to middlemen instead.

USC had, as of last year, a $5.7B endowment. I suspect they don't really adjust their tuition based on the level of donations they get.

Re: Lori Loughlin and husband sentenced in college bribery scandal

#28
post #15

I have hard time understanding what goes for the bribery in US. Apparently, a lot of stuff that would be considered corruption in Europe is just business as normal in the US. In this particular case I would guess that what they did would be considered OK. Apparently it wasn't. Can someone from the US comment on where the boundary between what's OK and what's not lies?

This is a typical comment of a Western European. I know, you would love to forget that Greece and Bulgaria are in Europe. However... they are.

I am from Slovakia and the country is pretty corrupt. But I feel that the moral boundary is somewhat different. In Eastern Europe, preferring your friends and family is more acceptable, whereas in the US it seems to be stuff that could be classified as, maybe, "lobbying" or "ecnomics".

Re: Lori Loughlin and husband sentenced in college bribery scandal

#29

I have a very hard time getting even remotely upset about the college bribery scandal when it's both legal and encouraged for the truly rich to get their failsons 'legacy admissions' at selective colleges by donating multiple millions to the institutions. The people who have been prosecuted as part of this scandal aren't being prosecuted for devaluing earned degrees at selective colleges; they're being prosecuted for…

Yeah, it feels more like they're getting punished for getting a discount and not giving the universities the bribe directly (likely because the actual 'fee' for getting your kid in is more than they could afford). I was similarly bothered by this, and by the fact that nobody was worried that these students would fail out given that they cheated their way in. Says a lot about the actual signalling value vs. educationa…

“ I was similarly bothered by this, and by the fact that nobody was worried that these students would fail out given that they cheated their way in.”

You would be surprised at how difficult it is to fail out of programs.

From what I’ve seen profs have an unwritten rule to not fail students from school admin, otherwise they might complain and so it’s easier to give a D than fail them completely.

Re: Lori Loughlin and husband sentenced in college bribery scandal

#30

I have a very hard time getting even remotely upset about the college bribery scandal when it's both legal and encouraged for the truly rich to get their failsons 'legacy admissions' at selective colleges by donating multiple millions to the institutions. The people who have been prosecuted as part of this scandal aren't being prosecuted for devaluing earned degrees at selective colleges; they're being prosecuted for…

Yeah you gotta bribe the right people or it’s a crime.
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