Can't you just right click? • Hacker News Board

Re: Can't you just right click?

#741

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 4:14 PM UTC

rglullis wrote: post #740

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You try to justify your avoidance of Linux by complaining of extremely low-level stuff (init stuff, networking, event notification systems, etc) and now you are talking about higher level "user needs". ...? What is so difficult to understand about this? Try to pay attention: the way the computer works is fundamental to how user interaction works. That you can't seem to grasp this is mind boggling. > I link to an ar…

> I am the best one to decide what tradeoffs I want to make, not some holier-than-thou computer nerd on the internet. Yeah, you are. But let's not forget the original topic and why the conversation started in the first place: Apple is charging developers $99/year to be able to have software running on their platform and making it increasingly harder for those that do not. Then someone posts something along the lines…

> There are two OSes (NixOS and Guix) that basically allow you to run anything you want, however you want

I just want to point out that these are able to cover only a small fraction of the things I listed, and you are required to learn a completely new language (each!) in order to use them.

> You can call me all the cute names you want, but in the end of day you are trading your freedoms for convenience and familiarity.

I don't deny it, that's the world we live in. At the end of the day I have to get things done. My frustration is because I wish OSS was better at supporting me in that, but 20 years of waiting for that to happen, and watching good ideas manifest only to die out practically unnoticed, have lead me to conclude it never will be.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#742

Post by CRConrad » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 4:33 PM UTC

FabHK wrote: post #250

saagarjha wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the possible warnings you can get literally has "[App name] will damage your computer. You should move it to the trash" in the dialog that shows up. There's a bunch of these, all of them pop up for various GateKeeper/Notarization shortcomings, and none of them actually seem to ever really tell you what the problem was.

1) I searched the article for "damage" and "should move" and didn't find it, so either it was in a screen cap (but I didn't find it there, either) or you meant "literally" in the new sense of "not literally". 2) Apple documentation [1] says (my highlight) "The Apple notary service is an automated system that scans your software for malicious content, checks for code-signing issues, and returns the results to you quic…

> Is the claim that Apple is not actually scanning notarised software for malicious content?

No, the claim is that just because Apple _hasn't_ scanned some particular piece of software for malicious content, that doesn't necessarily mean it _does_ contain such.

> 3) Random unsigned apps presumably have not been scanned, and might contain malware.

Exactly: they _might._ But popping up big hysterical warnings about it strongly implies, particularly to less technically well-versed users, that they_ do._

> what's misleading (and "intentionally" so!).

Strongly implying something that is obviously not true, that's what's misleading. In fact, AFAICT, that is the very definition thereof. And unless they're putting stuff they didn't intend to say into the dialogs they pop up, then yes, it is obviously intentional. Is the claim that their dialog text is un-intentional?

> I still fail to see the problem

Two hoary old quotes (or is the first a proverb? Maybe literally, from Proverbs) come to mind:

1: Nobody is as blind as he who does not want to see.

2: It's hard to make a man see something he doesn't want to see, particularly if his salary depends on him not seeing it.

(Personally, I do data warehousing / ETL programming for a living; currently at the Finnish Social Security Agency.)

Re: Can't you just right click?

#743

Post by rglullis » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 5:06 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #741

rglullis wrote: post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am the best one to decide what tradeoffs I want to make, not some holier-than-thou computer nerd on the internet. Yeah, you are. But let's not forget the original topic and why the conversation started in the first place: Apple is charging developers $99/year to be able to have software running on their platform and making it increasingly harder for those that do not. Then someone posts something along the lines…

> There are two OSes (NixOS and Guix) that basically allow you to run anything you want, however you want I just want to point out that these are able to cover only a small fraction of the things I listed, and you are required to learn a completely new language (each!) in order to use them. > You can call me all the cute names you want, but in the end of day you are trading your freedoms for convenience and familiari…

> At the end of the day I have to get things done.

Who doesn't? Now you are the one being condescending to assume that those that stick with the principle have nothing to do.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#744

Post by GoblinSlayer » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 5:27 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #600

nanna wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a nice example of what a logician calls a false cause: your conclusion (definition of outrageous) isn't supported by your premise (how much you used to pay for kit). It's also a straw man, since I was talking about an OS developer wanting to publish their software, and you're attempting to sink it by portraying it as referring to a consumer wanting free stuff. The subject of your conclusion, 'current generati…

Like 1000 euros per year for a MSDN Professional license, or the required certification from several vendors that have to be renewed every couple years.

A programmer isn't exactly a freeloader. He spends a lot of expensive effort to improve the OS vendor's worth. Microsoft figured this out correctly.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#745

Post by GoblinSlayer » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 5:44 PM UTC

Spivak wrote: post #615

pjmlp wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like 1000 euros per year for a MSDN Professional license, or the required certification from several vendors that have to be renewed every couple years.

Or having to pay Red Hat for support to get access to their KB, get updates, and pay separate licenses if you want any of their premium software offerings. Or having to shell out for console dev kits and game engines. And the embedded software world is even worse. The exception is being able realistically develop for a platform without little/no expense. People really are spoiled by FOSS tooling.

Imagine complaining about accessible technology. Corporations can't find the bottom of their misanthropy.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#746

Post by GoblinSlayer » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 6:06 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #698

simion314 wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

your perspective is limited IMO, for example you have small tools like a save cleaner utility for The Sims3 , some person made this tool in Java in his free time and shared it for free with the community, why should this dev pay Apple. There are people that make Visual novels,text based games and other indie stuff(without using Apple tools most are Python,Java or Web tech) for free or a few bucks, I think they would…

Before Java was a thing, that utility would have been written in Turbo Pascal, Quick Basic, Visual Basic, C, C++ compiler, none of them available for free. At minimum one would need the Shareware or PD disks tax to get hold of some similar compiler.

Programs in basic from those times: https://web.archive.org/web/20121021081826/http://www.btinte... and basic interpreter shipped in computer's ROM. Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpeedScript

Re: Can't you just right click?

#747

Post by GoblinSlayer » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 6:58 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #699

zeveb wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Outrageous is the entitlement of the current generations for not paying for their tools. Sure, but in the case of an open-source developer working on macOS, he has already paid for his operating system; if he is using GCC, he has already paid everything the GCC developers require; why then must he pay extra money to Apple in order for other people to run his software in a straightforward manner on their machines (o…

Because traditionally compilers for a specific OS were extra pay. Ironically that you mentioned GCC, it only came to be, because Sun made their development tools an additional payment to the base Solaris price.

Historically free software follows proprietary software because proprietary vendors can't contain their greed and mandate free software, it happened to GNU, git, nextcloud, many times over and over.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#748

Post by GoblinSlayer » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 7:08 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #723

quanticle wrote: post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, which is why I was careful to state that Community was for individuals , and Professional was for multi-developer organizations. This is in contrast with Apple, which requires you to pay $99 regardless of whether you're an individual or a corporate entity.

Yeah, but lets not forget that community also is relatively recent, having replaced the Express editions, which were worthless beyond learning purposes, as per license.

Recently tried to compile scintilla in visual studio, but gave up figuring out how to tune all settings in the IDE and compiled with nmake instead, the make file was very transparent and hackable with everything in plain sight.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#749

Post by CRConrad » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 8:40 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #608

gfxgirl wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of comparisons online showing for the same price as a Mac you can get a PC that will edit your photos, compress your videos, render your 3D architecture 3x to 4x as fast as the fastest Mac you can buy. If you're a professional might be throwing money down the toilet waiting for your mac depending on your use case. Note: I'm not a mac hater. I have 2, one I use every day and love it. I also have a PC…

I've been checking the last few years, all laptops with 32G (which is my main requirement) are about the same price (2000 GBP), except that, of course, Macs have superior build quality and software.

I bought one of these last year; the specs still look about the same AFAICS. Paid just a smidgeon over 2K€ with 64 GB RAM and 2 TB SSD. A little better than 2K GBP for 32 GB.

https://bestware.com/en/schenker-slim-15-red-edition.html

Re: Can't you just right click?

#750

Post by CRConrad » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 8:44 PM UTC

ubermonkey wrote: post #651

manquer wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

for more than 10 years I loved using Apple . My first introduction to Apple came during the G5 times in edit studios with Final Cut Pro I would rent those on hourly rate even when it was 30-35% costlier than Avid and premier pro . The project always ended cheaper because Apple was that good . My first computer was Apple the Airs were a great product , I loved the MagSafe port I loved the build quality when they move…

So you're fine with a less polished / higher maintenance desktop OS. Not everyone is. I have absolutely no interest in going to an environment where I can't run native Office, or a decent mail client, etc. And I have less interest in putting up with the garbage fire that is Windows.

You can run native Office on Linux. It's both free and Free: Libre Office.