Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#341

Post by username90 » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 11:01 PM UTC

lsiebert wrote: post #53

kreutz wrote: post #25

Why not let the market decide? If drivers are so unhappy why not just seek some alternative form of work? Uber/Lyft do not force anyone to hop online.

Because collections of people organized into corporations have greater bargaining power than individuals in negotiations. Traditionally the answer to that is unions or professional group who can bargain on behalf of all their members, but it's hard to unionize fields with low barriers to entry (and harder when the workers are living paycheck to paycheck and thus can't strike easily), and impossible to unionize indepe…

> impossible to unionize independent contractor drivers based on how the laws are written.

What laws, don't you have freedom of association in USA? Just create a group, what is stopping you?

Speaking as an ignorant European.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#342

Post by malandrew » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 11:02 PM UTC

bsder wrote: post #287

serjester wrote: post #99

Completely anecdotal but I bring this question up every time I drive in an Uber and overwhelmingly the drivers tell me they want to stay independent. No one is forcing drivers into their jobs. I really struggle to understand why we need bureaucrats imposing their idea of what a market should look like on an fairly efficient market. From my experience the drivers are perfectly aware of the costs that go into driving s…

> overwhelmingly the drivers tell me they want to stay independent. However, I overwhelmingly don't want to pay for their healthcare or food stamps because they aren't earning enough money. I personally think that AB5 doesn't go far enough. If you employ people for more than 40 hours, you should owe healthcare and benefits, period . It doesn't matter whether those 40 hours are one person or 10 people or whether the p…

> However, I overwhelmingly don't want to pay for their healthcare or food stamps because they aren't earning enough money.

So you response is to support a solution where they can't earn any money because it's not enough money? Congratulations, now these people are idle and you're now paying even more to cover their needs whereas previously your taxes only had to cover some of their needs and they could participate actively in the economy, working their way up to better opportunities.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#343

Post by ivalm » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 11:03 PM UTC

macinjosh wrote: post #185

jon-wood wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That you don’t bat an eyelid at people needing a second or third job to make ends meet is in itself an indictment of the general state of the US.

Why is it necessarily better for someone to have a single job verses multiple gigs? Not everyone wants to be a shift worker or office drone. Its just an implementation detail of the economy not some sort of indicator of a problem.

If you have multiple gigs then at least one of those gigs should provide basic benefits such as insurance. What gig is better at doing it than the gig powered by a megacorp?

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#344

Post by gamblor956 » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 11:04 PM UTC

dcftoapv wrote: post #187

dcftoapv wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Los Angeles taxi union prevented (read: bribed and coerced) the state / city government from installing a train from LAX to DTLA because they were rolling in cash. Then, they got pissed about Uber, and had a rule enacted that forced passengers to take a bus to an external lot which turned the world's worst airport congestion into a way worse situation. It is not unrealistic to think that they are a driving force…

@tom No, it's not being built. The train that is currently under construction will connect the airport terminals to a cab stand and car rental station less than a mile from the airport because LA taxi drivers threw a shit fit when they suggested building a train into downtown and Santa Monica. By the way, we're paying $4 billion for that. $4 billion to carry passengers less than a mile from the airport so they can th…

The train that is currently under construction will connect the airport terminals to a cab stand and car rental station less than a mile from the airport because LA taxi drivers threw a shit fit when they suggested building a train into downtown and Santa Monica.

This is false to the point of being deliberate FUD.

The LAX people mover is $4 billion because the FAA requires a fuck-ton of care to be taken so that construction and the people-mover itself doesn't interfere with the operation of the airport. It is a 2.25 mile system with 6 stations: the terminals, the rental car facility, the parking lots, the metro station, and two employee-only facilities.

The shuttle you speak of will only operate for 2-3 years, between the parking facility (expected completion 2021) and the terminals, while the Peoplemover is built out to the terminals (expected completion: 2023).

LA taxi drivers had literally no influence over the design of the airport or public transportation to it. I don't understand the bizarre logic required to think that a few hundred people making just above minimum wage have the political leverage to block a multi-billion dollar project.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#345

Post by addicted44 » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 11:04 PM UTC

serjester wrote: post #99

Completely anecdotal but I bring this question up every time I drive in an Uber and overwhelmingly the drivers tell me they want to stay independent. No one is forcing drivers into their jobs. I really struggle to understand why we need bureaucrats imposing their idea of what a market should look like on an fairly efficient market. From my experience the drivers are perfectly aware of the costs that go into driving s…

Uber/Lyft drivers don't badmouth it.

Would you if some random person, who for all you know could be an Uber/Lyft employee, and even if not, is someone who uses Uber/Lyft and therefore is likely happy with it, asks you a question about it?

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#346

Post by gamblor956 » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 11:07 PM UTC

labcomputer wrote: post #292

tomjakubowski wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What "Los Angeles taxi union" organization specifically lobbied against the LAX train, which, by the way, is now being built? There may well have been industry lobbyists fighting this but until very recently (the last five years) almost no taxi drivers in Los Angeles were unionized.

> which, by the way, is now being built Yea, over 25 years late. The Green Line (opened 1995) was originally supposed to have a real LAX station, instead of the (current) station-near-LAX-with-a-bus-transfer. The Crenshaw Corridor train (which connects to the Green Line) will open an LAX station sometime in 2021, if it isn't delayed.

The Green Line (opened 1995) was originally supposed to have a real LAX station

...until the FAA intervened and said the Metro couldn't build all the way out to the airport, due to the potential danger from crossing existing flight paths. (In a nutshell: the Green Line would have crossed perpendicularly to the existing runways, which would be fine normally but a huge risk in the event a plane overshoots or undershoots the runway.)

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#347

Post by mardifoufs » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 11:08 PM UTC

grumple wrote: post #335

mardifoufs wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure but I think amazon enforces some kind of forced price adjustment policy. IIRC they change the prices if their algo detect lower prices somewhere else on the internet or on similar listings. I'll try to find the WSJ article where I've read about this.

Maybe for their own products. Definitely not for others.

You are right,but they've just recently stopped doing that.

https://www.axios.com/amazon-price-practice-antitrust-elizab...

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#348

Post by gamblor956 » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 11:10 PM UTC

dcftoapv wrote: post #158

ReaLNero wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California is about 5% of revenue for Uber.

Maybe, but this law will prevent Uber from ever turning a profit in CA, so it's far easier to just shutdown operations, and move their headquarters. I live here, pay taxes here, and vote here. I am actively rooting against the state right now.

Ironically, according to their SEC filings, CA (and specifically SF/Bay Area and LA/OC) was one of Uber's few profitable markets, pre-COVID.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#349

Post by gamblor956 » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 11:11 PM UTC

lhorie wrote: post #291

tyrust wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've asked for a source without linking your "very reliable source".

Uber's CEO is my source

Uber's CEO is referring to COVID-era percentages.

Pre-CVOID, according to their SEC filings, SF, LA, and NY were Uber's only profitable markets.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#350

Post by username90 » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 11:11 PM UTC

crawlcrawler wrote: post #199

randyrand wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

banning prostitution is the best example of this dumb line of thinking. If they could do something better they already would be doing it. Replacing a "bad" option with "no" option does not help them.

Prostitution should not be an option for anyone. How is: "I was so poor I had to sell my body so as to not starve to death but selling my body made me depressed and so I spent all my money on drugs leaving no money for food, throwing me into a life of starvation." ...better than: "I was so poor I could not buy food." ...really?

"I was so poor I starved to death."

fixed that for you to make the two sentences equal. Making prostitution illegal doesn't prevent the men and women who sell their bodies from starving to death after they lost their source of income. I'm all for social programs preventing people from starving to death though, that seems like a much better solution than banning prostution.