Rideshare operations are being suspended in California • Hacker News Board

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#931

Post by ProcNetDev » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 9:21 PM UTC

mola wrote: post #919

ProcNetDev wrote: post #870

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone keeps saying the substitute for Uber/Lyft is taxis. Maybe this is HN bay-area bias but it is just wrong. The substitute for Uber/Lyft in 95% of the US is driving your own car! Driving your own car has significant externalities, eg. More need for parking, more emissions, more drunk driving. I don't live in CA but used to do a fair amount of work travel out there. If they don't have Uber/Lyft in the future, I'…

It could also be good public transportation. Much more efficient.

I'll believe in public transportation in CA whenever Marin county gets a BART station. Trust me if that happens we'll be able to ride our flying pigs everywhere.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#932

Post by mola » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 9:22 PM UTC

samatman wrote: post #610

silviogutierrez wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A while ago — and I have no citations for this — I read it was easier to just pay for private rides for every accessible person than to make NYC and SF's public transportation accessible. Yes, in perpetuity. Considerably cheaper, too. Why then, go through the effort? Because they should be integrated into society like all others. I firmly believe public transportation has benefits beyond efficiency. Something about a…

Well, I don't have a wheelchair-bound piano tuner handy to ask, so I'll have to model this person based on other wheelchair users I've been acquainted with over the years. So let's ask this imaginary person: Would you rather get free rides everywhere you need to go, or have to wait in the rain/snow/heat for the bus, feeling the stress of inconveniencing others with the ramp, and having to wheel yourself the rest of t…

That's such a false dichotomy, public transportation can be comfortable and efficient. And It is in a lot of places around the world.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#933

Post by umvi » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 9:23 PM UTC

mike00632 wrote: post #886

umvi wrote: post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine creating an app called "Clean Streets" - basically people can put bounties on streets, other people can collect the bounty by picking up the litter. Sounds like a great little idea right? The app takes a 1% fee for server upkeep. Win/win, bored teenagers make some extra money and your neighborhood gets cleaned up... right? Wrong. Turns out, people aren't willing to pay that much for people to clean up their s…

Ummmmm, Uber and Lyft take a lot more than 1% from drivers. And Uber drivers are typically the polar opposite of bored teenagers. They are dedicated adults trying to make driving their profession.

> And Uber drivers are typically the polar opposite of bored teenagers. They are dedicated adults trying to make driving their profession

Right, but were they the original target demographic? Just because a platform gets commandeered by desperate people doesn't mean the platform was originally designed to support them.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#934

Post by Balgair » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 9:25 PM UTC

slfnflctd wrote: post #642

AgloeDreams wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact: the average pay per mile is less than the US Government's Standard driving deduction.

I can personally testify to this. My rule of thumb as a driver was that I had to drive roughly twice as many miles as dollars I needed, i.e. $0.50 a mile. It was absolutely a lifesaver and exactly what I needed at the time. But it's debatable whether it could have been sustained long term. Personally, I think if instead of chasing imaginary Level 5 autonomy madness with billions of dollars, they had done the unsexy t…

The IRS driving reimbursement rate where I am is $0.575/mile. So, if you make less than that, it seems as if you're not making money (as an 'average' driver). You'll just be trading the mileage on your tires/transmission/axels for cash today.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-20-05.pdf

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#935

Post by jameslk » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 9:25 PM UTC

mixmastamyk wrote: post #703

dmode wrote: post #231

I dislike Uber and Lyft's practices as much as the next guy. But I also believe AB5 is a terrible bill and will be voting in November to exempt Uber and Lyft from AB5. AB5 was written to impose a 20th century employment model to a 21st century situation. As such, the bill is distorted that it carve out hundreds of exemptions to musicians, freelancers, journalists, doctors, hair stylists and so on and so forth. A bill…

It's also forcing me into an $800 a year LLC I don't want for software contracts. :-/

The LLC won't protect the company you're working with from AB5. You would need to form an S-Corp and put yourself on payroll with benefits, or work through a staffing agency on W2, or become the company's employee, or move out of CA. In other words, your only options are to become an employee of a company or leave CA.

Of course, its probably not in your best interest to mention this to the company you want to work with since they'll probably just choose to work with someone outside of CA instead. Just be glad their legal counsel (if they have any) doesn't know enough about this law to cause you more headaches.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#936

Post by runarberg » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 9:27 PM UTC

bgorman wrote: post #794

pottertheotter wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide some sources on this? Would like to read about it.

Here is where the primary AB5 bill sponsors get their money: https://www.followthemoney.org/entity-details?eid=37194&defa... https://www.followthemoney.org/entity-details?eid=133178&def... List of all sponsors: https://legiscan.com/CA/sponsors/AB5/2019 As you can see "Labor" is by far the biggest sponsor to the politicans who pushed through this initiative.

I don’t understand, why is that surprising? After all the reason behind this bill is to prevent unfair labor conditions. It is literally the job of labor unions to push forward and lobby for bills like these.

I think you are guilty of bad faith reasoning here. First you state that “big labor unions want more power” and your evidence for that claim is “Labor unions push for bills that prevent bad labor practices”.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#937

Post by runarberg » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 9:31 PM UTC

stephencoyner wrote: post #470

theplague42 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there an Uber/Lyft driver union?

No and prop 22 would make it near impossible to create some

This is an unfair critique. The whole point is that the drivers will get regular employment (as opposed to being contracted) and will be able to unionize under any driver’s union (or create a new union, or even some other more generic union).

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#938

Post by pembrook » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 9:37 PM UTC

henryfjordan wrote: post #738

dmode wrote: post #231

I dislike Uber and Lyft's practices as much as the next guy. But I also believe AB5 is a terrible bill and will be voting in November to exempt Uber and Lyft from AB5. AB5 was written to impose a 20th century employment model to a 21st century situation. As such, the bill is distorted that it carve out hundreds of exemptions to musicians, freelancers, journalists, doctors, hair stylists and so on and so forth. A bill…

AB5 was an absolute cop-out by the CA Legislature. They should have defined a third class of workers with protections somewhere in between Contractors and Employees. But when it comes to the vote in November, a vote to exempt Uber/Lyft from AB5 is a vote to strip drivers of all protections. Uber and Lyft will be free to go back to exploiting drivers for Maybe you are hoping the legislature will eventually come up wit…

> Uber and Lyft will be free to go back to exploiting drivers for Exploiting? Can you please cite another industry that has the capacity to employ millions of unskilled labor people at $10/hr and ALSO allow them the freedom to set their own schedule?

It's clear you've never worked a minimum wage job before. Flexibility on hours is next-to-impossible at these jobs. If people are willing to make a few bucks an hour less for that flexibility, who are you to call it exploitation?

It's not like these companies are minting profits. The alternative is these people go back to work at McDonald's and also get no benefits while being scheduled at such bizarre hours they can't even go to school and educate themselves.

Shrinking the pool of employment choices for these people does nothing to help them actually get healthcare. My mind is still blown at how the American solution to workers not having healthcare is to attack individual businesses instead of looking across the Atlantic at how the rest of the world solved this problem.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#939

Post by joshgachnang » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 9:52 PM UTC

freeone3000 wrote: post #657

joshgachnang wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they not able to set their own prices/minimums? I just had a notification pop up this week at the airport that the nearby drivers were charging more and I'd need to accept a surge price or wait longer. I'm not sure if this is just a clever rewording of the surge pricing policy or an actual change on the driver side. For what it's worth, it was after 16 hours of travel, so I wasn't paying super close attention.

That's Lyft setting the prices, not individual drivers.

Ah at least for Uber (unclear on Lyft) it is able to be set by the drivers: https://www.uber.com/blog/california/set-your-fares/

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#940

Post by FireBeyond » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 9:52 PM UTC

pembrook wrote: post #938

henryfjordan wrote: post #738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AB5 was an absolute cop-out by the CA Legislature. They should have defined a third class of workers with protections somewhere in between Contractors and Employees. But when it comes to the vote in November, a vote to exempt Uber/Lyft from AB5 is a vote to strip drivers of all protections. Uber and Lyft will be free to go back to exploiting drivers for Maybe you are hoping the legislature will eventually come up wit…

> Uber and Lyft will be free to go back to exploiting drivers for Exploiting? Can you please cite another industry that has the capacity to employ millions of unskilled labor people at $10/hr and ALSO allow them the freedom to set their own schedule? It's clear you've never worked a minimum wage job before. Flexibility on hours is next-to-impossible at these jobs. If people are willing to make a few bucks an hour les…

> It's not like these companies are minting profits.

Possibly because they're dramatically undercharging, loss leading, to get "market share"?

Undercharging, and drivers being paid "not very much" seems like two issues that are ... very much related.