Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Suspected Poisoning of Alexey Navalny, Putin’s Most Prominent Adversary

newyorker.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 193 posts

Re: The Suspected Poisoning of Alexey Navalny, Putin’s Most Prominent Adversary

#151

Post by nate_meurer »

raverbashing wrote: post #144
nate_meurer wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read my comment again. I said that if SA were to do what Russia did -- invade a peaceful neighbor with no provocation and steal a portion of their country -- then I'm confident that sanctions would be levied against them. Pretty simple proposition, really.

So you don't think the Yemen situation is worse than Crimea (which is a complicated issue in itself?). Or even SA financing the expansion of Wahhabism? I think SA gets too little sanctions for what they do. Too little. And by the way, I'm totally in favour of Russia sanctions. I'm not questioning any of that.

I agree. SA is a hugely destructive influence across the Middle East in lot of ways. For whatever reason, the strategic interests of SA and the US align just enough to keep them out of trouble. But if SA were to emulate Putin's foreign policy and annex, say, Kuwait, I promise their luck would run out fast. Funny, I seems to remember something sort of similar happening not too long ago...

Re: The Suspected Poisoning of Alexey Navalny, Putin’s Most Prominent Adversary

#152

Post by yostrovs »

supernova87a wrote: post #10

I remember an essay a few years ago (it was the Ukrainian poisoning?) where the author essentially said that Russia's brand has basically been spoiled for outsiders. (political brand certainly, but maybe overall as a country). As in, Russia is no longer a trustworthy seeming, interesting, attractive place to want to go visit or collaborate with or be associated with. I mean, of course it depends on the level of detai…

This comment would be considered bigoted by some or at least when applied to some other nations. But I agree with you. I came from there about when communism crashed and had high hopes, which have now been destroyed. Russians just don't have the same wishes that people in the west do. They just want a grand and powerful nation that is feared by others. They don't mind living rather poor as long as they have nukes and hypersonic missiles or some such. And that leads to a place that doesn't seem very nice, friendly, or attractive.

Re: The Suspected Poisoning of Alexey Navalny, Putin’s Most Prominent Adversary

#153

Post by yostrovs »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #123
supernova87a wrote: post #10

I remember an essay a few years ago (it was the Ukrainian poisoning?) where the author essentially said that Russia's brand has basically been spoiled for outsiders. (political brand certainly, but maybe overall as a country). As in, Russia is no longer a trustworthy seeming, interesting, attractive place to want to go visit or collaborate with or be associated with. I mean, of course it depends on the level of detai…

I'm not sure how true this is. Rural Americans young enough to not remember the cold war are pretty well aware that they (arguably) have more in common with the Russian people than they do with any western European people even if the geopolitical goals of Russia are in conflict of those of the US.

Please elaborate..

Re: The Suspected Poisoning of Alexey Navalny, Putin’s Most Prominent Adversary

#154

Post by hn_check »

hn_check wrote: post #53
vogre wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well Saudi Arabia is hundred times worse than all we have in Russia on every point you mentioned. But guess who get all the sanctions?

Saudi Arabia exports oil but apart from that is generally just completely irrelevant. It is a terrible, despotic regressive craphole, but it doesn't have context enough in the world to come up a lot.

To the dead reply to me - lol. Saudi Arabia's geopolitical power is entirely predicated on the US acting in its interest, which was a premise that only held when the US was dependent on oil imports.

Saudi Arabia's economy is non-existent and hyper-unproductive, and its military is farcical. While it has some modern hardware, it has F-15s being staffed by profoundly incompetent princlings (just another example of the broken nature of the society, where it is the absolute inverse of a meritocracy. Incompetence and nepotism from top to bottom).

Saudi Arabia is irrelevant, unless maybe you're some Indian guy looking for a job where you live in servitude as a slave in some foreign nation. When they do deplorable things it just doesn't get a lot of notice because it's entirely expected. They got to prance around with an imagined importance when they could squeeze the oil spigot, but now...eh. Those days are long gone.

Re: The Suspected Poisoning of Alexey Navalny, Putin’s Most Prominent Adversary

#155

Post by stOneskull »

mcsb4 wrote: post #54
mhh__ wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that Russia has used a nerve agent near where I live I'll give the media a pass on demonising Russia.

I don't know what happened there but the official version leaves some serious doubts open. For example there was a long time talk of a "nurse" that found them. Only by accident it was revealed that this nurse was the head-nurse of the UK forces, i.e. in the rank of a general, well versed in chemical warfare. Also why was never the full tracks of the two Russians the victims revealed? There is CCTV on every corner in…

seems to be a lot more downvoting recently. getting to where my eyes are drawn to those comments first, which is funny. blow a raspberry at them.

Re: The Suspected Poisoning of Alexey Navalny, Putin’s Most Prominent Adversary

#156

Post by SergeAx »

olegious wrote: post #78

Given what's happening in Belarus, this seems like odd timing to take this action (assuming he was intentionally poisoned by the government).

In Russia unified voting day is September 13. Navalny is running "Smart Voting" campaign to consolidate votes for most electable candidate. Taking him off the chess desk is a serious dent in that campaign.

At the same time, using poison gives Putin maximum plausible deniability. It is almost impossible to prove his involvement.

Re: The Suspected Poisoning of Alexey Navalny, Putin’s Most Prominent Adversary

#157

Post by supergirl »

supernova87a wrote: post #10

I remember an essay a few years ago (it was the Ukrainian poisoning?) where the author essentially said that Russia's brand has basically been spoiled for outsiders. (political brand certainly, but maybe overall as a country). As in, Russia is no longer a trustworthy seeming, interesting, attractive place to want to go visit or collaborate with or be associated with. I mean, of course it depends on the level of detai…

might have something to do with the constant anti-russia propaganda in the west

Re: The Suspected Poisoning of Alexey Navalny, Putin’s Most Prominent Adversary

#158

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

throwaway122kk wrote: post #31
sjg007 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia definitely has the talent.

Had Name any political, cultural, economic, literature, sports achievement in last 30 years to come out of Russia. That's right Internet trolls which are an evolution on kgbs psyops

> Name any political, cultural, economic, literature, sports achievement in last 30 years to come out of Russia.

Russia remains prominent in the literary world. Contemporary authors like Sorokin and Ulitskaya are widely translated into other languages. If anything Russia's decline in those other respects makes its authors more competitive internationally, because "Novelist X captures the gritty reality of an oppressive state" has been since the Soviet era a dependable angle to market books to foreign readers.

Re: The Suspected Poisoning of Alexey Navalny, Putin’s Most Prominent Adversary

#159

Post by m0zg »

boo_boo wrote: post #57
leokennis wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give an example where Russia is portrayed unfairly?

Former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper on Russians in 2017: "...the Russians, who typically, almost genetically driven to co-opt, penetrate, gain favor..." [1] [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/james-clapper...

Says the habitual liar James Clapper who verifiably lied under oath several times.

Re: The Suspected Poisoning of Alexey Navalny, Putin’s Most Prominent Adversary

#160

Post by nate_meurer »

vkou wrote: post #150
nate_meurer wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maintaining a buffer is exactly why the Soviets annexed half of Europe after WWII, and spent the next half century brutally oppressing the populations therein. That's the whole point. But regardless, this is such a silly semantic quibble. Who cares why Russia wants to reassemble its empire? The international community is understandably alarmed by Russia's actions, and naturally care little about Putin's justification…

Let me reverse that question. What specific actions of NATO lead you to think that its ambitions for Russia in the 2010s differ from its ambitions for the USSR in the 1970s and 1980s? What has changed since the Cold War, in those ambitions? What specific actions has NATO taken that make it clear that those ambitions have changed? What reassurance is Russia expected to see that encirclement, containment, and isolation…

You're asking for proof of a negative? Proof that NATO isn't nefariously plotting Russia's demise? And "encirclement"? Really? The borders with NATO countries comprise like five percent of Russia's total border length. If NATO is trying to encircle Russia, they're doing a really shitty job.

Honestly, I'm not interested in engaging with this prove-a-negative nonsense. In my humble opinion, invading a neighbor and annexing part of it can't be justified short of a clear, present, and profound security risk. NATO, a voluntary, chronically underfunded defensive organization almost completely subservient to the political gyrations of the US, the leader of which is now actively trying to destroy it, is not that risk, and I don't believe that anybody honestly thinks it is.

Putin will gladly use any action on the part of European countries to justify more invasions. Like the way Sergey Lavrov threatened "military technical measures" in the Baltic region if Sweden joined NATO. Remember that? The Baltic states are lined up like dominos, possibly Belarus as well, where I've heard rumors that Russia is already sending troops. As Trump says when he has no clue what he's talking about, "We'll see what happens".

Post reply on HN