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Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

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Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#221

Post by ttymck »

mehrdadn wrote: post #149
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want to stay independent, fine. Then actually treat them like independent contractors. Let them set rates. Let them decline rides without facing penalties by the platform. Make the changes necessary to fit the independent contractor model. And not just the rideshare company, but the state too: these workers need unemployment insurance, as Covid has shown, and somebody needs to pay for it: be it the workers or th…

> Let them decline rides without facing penalties by the platform. Does the model of IC have to imply that every ride is a new, independent contract? Is there no other reasonable model in which multiple rides are part of one contract? Why?

What does the alternative look like? A contract for 10 rides? A contract for one week at a time? What if the driver wants to serve one ride, and then never again: what contract models allow that single ride to fulfill a "contract"?

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#223

Post by 908B64B197 »

serjester wrote: post #99

Completely anecdotal but I bring this question up every time I drive in an Uber and overwhelmingly the drivers tell me they want to stay independent. No one is forcing drivers into their jobs. I really struggle to understand why we need bureaucrats imposing their idea of what a market should look like on an fairly efficient market. From my experience the drivers are perfectly aware of the costs that go into driving s…

Posted it in an other thread [0] but

Pre-Uber, either the driver rented the car to a middleman who rented the medallion from a rich owner, or said owner was selling and financing (most banks won't touch these medallions!) a medallion at a ridiculous interest rate to a driver that planned to use it as his retirement savings (an extremely volatile asset and not very liquid).

The more I spoke to cab drivers the more it seemed their industry was a pyramid schemed aimed at helping established rent-seeker take advantage of often poor new immigrants. Uber brought a breeze of fresh air: Someone could simply buy a car, calculate the depreciation and it's value on the market (since unlike medallions cars are relatively liquid assets!) do rideshare and calculate their profits or loss. They can get out of the game at anytime, and they know exactly how much they are going to get for the car they have should they sell it.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24225648

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#224

Post by node-bayarea »

whb07 wrote: post #49
yannyu wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market is not fair. People have to eat, and will look for whatever job that can get that will help them eat and provide for their families.

No such thing as fair in life. So why have some bureaucrat write laws to dictate fair based on their politics? The market isn’t political. Having said that, Uber drivers exist because it does provide enough money to have people show up and provide a service. If it didn’t, no one would do the driving. Not to mention most drivers don’t want to be considered employees.

I see the democrats downvoting this. Unfortunately, this is the world we live in!

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#225

Post by renewiltord »

shanemhansen wrote: post #153
deminature wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The RideShareGuy is the most prominent blog for drivers and their annual survey seems to reflect that [1] >66% of drivers said they wanted to be independent contractors vs 15.8% who wanted to be an employee [1] https://therideshareguy.com/uber-driver-survey/

There's lots of ways to lie with surveys, I wonder what the exact wording was and what the responses would be to variants such as: 1. Do you want to be CEO of your own company or a peon employee? 2. Do you want uber to set your hours? 3. Do you want medical, vacation days, or unemployment insurance? For some people these are all basically the same questions. For most folks, I don't think they are.

Very curious about this trend I've seen on HN where instead of going to the primary source, commenters will take 2x the time to hypothesize about what the primary source could contain.

In this particular case it was so easy that it really makes me wonder.

I can think of a couple of reasons:

* Uncertainty with where in the primary source the content is

* Concern that you're being Gish Galloped with citations

* Lack of skill at skimming

Anyway, the source is particularly weird with the way it links to things and stuff but it wasn't that hard to find. I went through it and then decided to screen record the interaction afterwards. It's my second time going through but not that different from the first.

Using headlines, pull quotes, and pictures as the things I'm aiming for, I got there in 30 s. I think your comment would have taken longer for me to have written than 30 s.

https://gfycat.com/rashwholeindianjackal

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#226

Post by Judgmentality »

yunderalls wrote: post #178
cltby wrote: post #111

> Seems like a loss for everyone except bureaucrats Not true, it's a great opportunity for javascript developers to get up on their soap boxes and share with us their moral and economic wisdom.

I laughed at this, but I do think I should point out that in a democracy it's good for people to have opinions about things that aren't their profession.

I think it's less about people having opinions and more about people being so self-righteous about something they don't understand as well as they think they do.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#227

Post by throw_m239339 »

kreutz wrote: post #25

Why not let the market decide? If drivers are so unhappy why not just seek some alternative form of work? Uber/Lyft do not force anyone to hop online.

Why not let the drivers decide whether they want to be contractors or employees as well?

> Uber/Lyft do not force anyone to hop online.

Yeah, let the drivers eat cake, hmm?

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#228

Post by smsm42 »

apsec112 wrote: post #147
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want to stay independent, fine. Then actually treat them like independent contractors. Let them set rates. Let them decline rides without facing penalties by the platform. Make the changes necessary to fit the independent contractor model. And not just the rideshare company, but the state too: these workers need unemployment insurance, as Covid has shown, and somebody needs to pay for it: be it the workers or th…

Uber and Lyft already did this in California after the passage of AB5 earlier this year. That's why they now have price estimates instead of giving exact values ahead of time.

So how that works in practice? One of the major advantages of Uber for me was fixed price upfront. So now I don't know the price until I order the ride? What if the driver sets an excessive price - can I decline the ride?

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#229

Post by [deleted] »

dmode wrote: post #188
serjester wrote: post #99

Completely anecdotal but I bring this question up every time I drive in an Uber and overwhelmingly the drivers tell me they want to stay independent. No one is forcing drivers into their jobs. I really struggle to understand why we need bureaucrats imposing their idea of what a market should look like on an fairly efficient market. From my experience the drivers are perfectly aware of the costs that go into driving s…

I think the problem is that driver’s want to remain independent, but their cost is borne by the society. Such as the recent CAREs act had unemployment for drivers. I am assuming they also get subsidized healthcare, and would be eligible for Medicare ? Their employers don't really contribute to these things. But perhaps the law should just have complied them to contribute via additional taxes instead of asking them to…

[deleted]

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#230

Post by iaabtpbtpnn »

They're lucky to have that judge. Uber and Lyft have consistently flaunted the law with a basic attitude of "screw you, our service is too popular, if you try to regulate us out of existence then your constituents will be madder at you than us". But right now, the service is not popular at all. I was a relatively heavy user of Uber and I haven't even thought about calling one in months. Food delivery sure, but I don't plan on using ride-sharing services for at least another year... who wants to sit in an Uber with a stranger, breathing each other's air? Who wants to DRIVE for Uber, breathing strangers' air all day? Besides, there is nowhere to go. No events, bars are all closed, etc. The ride-sharing economy has just evaporated.
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