Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 688 posts

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#191

Post by grugagag »

tempsy wrote: post #165
serjester wrote: post #99

Completely anecdotal but I bring this question up every time I drive in an Uber and overwhelmingly the drivers tell me they want to stay independent. No one is forcing drivers into their jobs. I really struggle to understand why we need bureaucrats imposing their idea of what a market should look like on an fairly efficient market. From my experience the drivers are perfectly aware of the costs that go into driving s…

imo biggest problem with the independent argument is Uber and Lyft actively penalizes you as a driver if you decline unprofitable trips. Also I believe Lyft (unsure about Uber) even stopped showing you how much you make per trip and instead just rolls it into one summary, presumably to make it harder for you to do the cost/benefit of deciding whether a trip is worth doing. that sort of big brother behavior is the ant…

I agree, the driver's independence is only one way : when convenient to them.

Both Uber and Lift should lower their cut and stop these practices if they really want the drivers to remain independent

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#192

Post by [deleted] »

mehrdadn wrote: post #149
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want to stay independent, fine. Then actually treat them like independent contractors. Let them set rates. Let them decline rides without facing penalties by the platform. Make the changes necessary to fit the independent contractor model. And not just the rideshare company, but the state too: these workers need unemployment insurance, as Covid has shown, and somebody needs to pay for it: be it the workers or th…

> Let them decline rides without facing penalties by the platform. Does the model of IC have to imply that every ride is a new, independent contract? Is there no other reasonable model in which multiple rides are part of one contract? Why?

[deleted]

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#193

Post by crazyjncsu »

all_blue_chucks wrote: post #154
serjester wrote: post #99

Completely anecdotal but I bring this question up every time I drive in an Uber and overwhelmingly the drivers tell me they want to stay independent. No one is forcing drivers into their jobs. I really struggle to understand why we need bureaucrats imposing their idea of what a market should look like on an fairly efficient market. From my experience the drivers are perfectly aware of the costs that go into driving s…

We should all care. Uber doesn't provide health insurance. Instead Uber drivers get their healthcare costs covered by the rest of us (either via ACA subsidies or written-off care provided to the uninsured).

Uber drivers pay taxes on earnings as contractors too. This at least partially covers ACA subsidies (if not fully).

And we subsidize employer-provided healthcare also, hence its existence.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#194

Post by Skunkleton »

hammock wrote: post #56
Skunkleton wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...Uber drivers reported earning $13.47 per hour, which means that on average, drivers report that their car is costing them over $6 per hour to operate. If you were to drive full time, that would get you about 27k/year, which is about the average income that a taxi driver makes. Rideshare companies are asking you to take more personal financial risk than you might as a taxi driver, but giving you more flexibility.…

Who says driving for Uber/Lyft should be a full-time job, or statutorily viable as a full-time job? If you consider it only as a second or third job, then it makes a lot more sense that your second or third job is not going to pay as well or have the same benefits as your first job. Those aspects would be expected and reasonable. The low-risk, high-reward jobs fill your primary job slot, then you seek other options a…

You can't really compare yearly salaries unless you pick something to standardize on. You will notice that I didn't pick on benefits at all. I would guess that the reality is most people depending on rideshare for a living are doing multiple jobs.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#195

Post by haberman »

shanemhansen wrote: post #153
deminature wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The RideShareGuy is the most prominent blog for drivers and their annual survey seems to reflect that [1] >66% of drivers said they wanted to be independent contractors vs 15.8% who wanted to be an employee [1] https://therideshareguy.com/uber-driver-survey/

There's lots of ways to lie with surveys, I wonder what the exact wording was and what the responses would be to variants such as: 1. Do you want to be CEO of your own company or a peon employee? 2. Do you want uber to set your hours? 3. Do you want medical, vacation days, or unemployment insurance? For some people these are all basically the same questions. For most folks, I don't think they are.

> When we polled drivers about their preference between remaining an independent contractor or becoming an employee, an overwhelming number of drivers wanted to remain independent.

> "What type of employment relationship would you like to have with rideshare companies"

> (A) I don't know the difference: 3.3%

> (B) I'd like to be an employee: 20.8%

> (C) I'd like to be an independent contractor: 75.9%

https://therideshareguy.com/california-sues-uber-and-lyft-fo...

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#196

Post by bsimpson »

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #129
serjester wrote: post #99

Completely anecdotal but I bring this question up every time I drive in an Uber and overwhelmingly the drivers tell me they want to stay independent. No one is forcing drivers into their jobs. I really struggle to understand why we need bureaucrats imposing their idea of what a market should look like on an fairly efficient market. From my experience the drivers are perfectly aware of the costs that go into driving s…

They want to stay independent, fine. Then actually treat them like independent contractors. Let them set rates. Let them decline rides without facing penalties by the platform. Make the changes necessary to fit the independent contractor model. And not just the rideshare company, but the state too: these workers need unemployment insurance, as Covid has shown, and somebody needs to pay for it: be it the workers or th…

We expect eBay/Amazon/Etsy to enforce standards on their platforms, but no one would argue that their sellers are employees.

I'm not convinced that having price and ride quality standards invalidates the contractor relationship.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#197

Post by dnr »

hammock wrote: post #42
blakesterz wrote: post #6

"Uber and Lyft say drivers prefer the flexibility of working as freelancers, while labor unions and elected officials contend this deprives them of traditional benefits like health insurance and workers’ compensation." I was curious about what drivers think. I guess they're not happy [1] but want to be independent contractors still [2]. 1. https://therideshareguy.com/uber-driver-survey/ 2. (In a May online survey dra…

>I was curious about what drivers think. I guess they're not happy [1] but want to be independent contractors still [2]. If the employers don't want the change... and the employees don't want the change... and the customers don't want the change... and the shareholders don't want the change... and the residents of California don't want the change (exhibited by the threads yesterday with outcry over the decision to sh…

I think the idea is that we're in a local maximum for "how good is the current arrangement for society as a whole". Any small change to the arrangement is going to make things worse for one party or another, and probably even make things worse for society as a whole. But there's a chance that a bigger change could get us to an even higher maximum, where everyone is better off, both individually and on net.

It's hard because you can't just jump there, there will be some people or entities that are worse off during the transition. Also there are unintended consequences so things might not go as you expect.

Usually to (attempt to) make changes like this, it has to be a government doing it, because it's a coordination problem and you have to force people to look past their short-term self-interest for a little while.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#198

Post by grugagag »

hhsuey wrote: post #174
throwawaygh wrote: post #72

When companies like Uber/Lyft depend on safety nets like unemployment without ever paying into the system, what’s happening is that our children are paying for returns on VC capital. People profiting from these types of companies should feel bad about themselves.

The gig economy model can be better, but I don't think it's helpful to blame individual companies. It's an entire system at play. Some people are totally happy with earning over a few hours a week. It's not a one size fits all system, so the model needs to be more flexible.

The gig economy exists only because of the rapid advancement in technology. When the law catches up with that maybe it will be fairer. Until then they take and cut corners on whatever the law hasn't caught up with yet.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#199

Post by crawlcrawler »

randyrand wrote: post #95
tetrometal wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I genuinely don't understand this position. I don't see how replacing a "bad" option with no option helps anyone, especially the people that were willing to take the "bad" option.

banning prostitution is the best example of this dumb line of thinking. If they could do something better they already would be doing it. Replacing a "bad" option with "no" option does not help them.

Prostitution should not be an option for anyone.

How is:

"I was so poor I had to sell my body so as to not starve to death but selling my body made me depressed and so I spent all my money on drugs leaving no money for food, throwing me into a life of starvation."

...better than:

"I was so poor I could not buy food."

...really?

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#200

Post by fsociety »

sneak wrote: post #125
erichocean wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now do Amazon.

Amazon pays more in payroll taxes, SUI, and Social Security alone than the entire revenue of the vast majority of any company you could select in the world.

Doesn’t Uber pay all that too? I feel like I’m missing the point.
Post reply on HN