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Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

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Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#851

Post by whakim »

lhorie wrote: post #817
ironman1478 wrote: post #771

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bit unfair. Yes, the public transit in cali sucks, but there needs to be a minimum standard with how we treat workers. Gig work was initially framed as a side thing where somebody going to the same area as you hops in your car and you share a ride. Like on demand carpooling. That is no longer the case, its people's livelihoods due to economic inequities and lack of normal jobs available to match the demand…

> Instead of telling people "hey go drive around endlessly in SF, hours from where you live. Also, you get no benefits" we can choose to bolster those local economies or we can choose to force companies to provide benefits. Either one of those options will make their lives better. We have chosen the latter Well, no. Prop 22 would force companies to provide benefits, and the rideshare companies themselves are behind i…

The "it'll take time to make this change and so we're suspending services for a while" argument is just a PR stunt.

Even if you disagree with the law, Uber/Lyft knew it was coming - they've known for a long time now. Instead of getting ready for it, they chose to spend their time filing lawsuits (which were never going to succeed) and preparing for a ballot initiative. So let's not argue that the law itself "put drivers out of work altogether." - Uber and Lyft did that.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#852

Post by danudey »

paulmd wrote: post #800
cactus2093 wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you on one point, "ridesharing" is a silly word. I would call it something like an "Open Car Service". The main reason I can't get on board with the rest of this line of argument is that it ultimately just comes down to paternalistic protection of the poor disenfranchised gig workers that you clearly view as being less than capable, rational adult humans. The number of gig economy workers has been growin…

> I agree with you on one point, "ridesharing" is a silly word. I would call it something like an "Open Car Service". Let's not beat around the bush, the appropriate term already exists, it's called a "taxi service". The fact that the taxi operators provide their own vehicles is not novel.

In Vancouver, at least, there are three players involved in providing most taxi rides:

* The taxi company, who offers fares to the driver * The driver, who operates the vehicle * The owner, who owns the vehicle

This means that at the end of the night, the taxi driver has to pay out to the taxi company and to the vehicle owner. This makes it very easy for a bad night to be a financial loss for the driver, since they still have to pay out regardless of whether they got good fares and tips or awful fares and tips.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#853

Post by mdorazio »

woeirua wrote: post #29

I suspect that California is going to backpedal on this pretty quickly. Uber and Lyft are popular. Going back to taxis is going to be very unpopular. IMO, if the California Republican party was smart they would make this a wedge issue in the next election. "Elect us, and we'll make it possible to use Uber again."

You're assuming competitors with actually viable business models weren't waiting for exactly this opportunity. Spoiler: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/19/uber-and-lyft-competitors-pr...

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#854

Post by jedberg »

silviogutierrez wrote: post #497
fotta wrote: post #344

Another group caught in the collateral damage is people in wheelchairs. Paratransit sucks in most places and where wheelchair accessible Uber/Lyft is available they provide a much better service. This is an especially vulnerable population because it's not like a wheelchair user can just find a friend with an accessible vehicle to take them to appointments, etc.

A while ago — and I have no citations for this — I read it was easier to just pay for private rides for every accessible person than to make NYC and SF's public transportation accessible. Yes, in perpetuity. Considerably cheaper, too. Why then, go through the effort? Because they should be integrated into society like all others. I firmly believe public transportation has benefits beyond efficiency. Something about a…

Elsewhere in the thread someone with a wheelchair bound sister mentioned that she doesn't like taking public transit because she gets harassed and gawked at for her disability.

Also, accessible transit benefits everyone with a stroller, as well as the elderly and anyone else with a temporary injury.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#856

Post by Game_Ender »

henryfjordan wrote: post #738
dmode wrote: post #231

I dislike Uber and Lyft's practices as much as the next guy. But I also believe AB5 is a terrible bill and will be voting in November to exempt Uber and Lyft from AB5. AB5 was written to impose a 20th century employment model to a 21st century situation. As such, the bill is distorted that it carve out hundreds of exemptions to musicians, freelancers, journalists, doctors, hair stylists and so on and so forth. A bill…

AB5 was an absolute cop-out by the CA Legislature. They should have defined a third class of workers with protections somewhere in between Contractors and Employees. But when it comes to the vote in November, a vote to exempt Uber/Lyft from AB5 is a vote to strip drivers of all protections. Uber and Lyft will be free to go back to exploiting drivers for Maybe you are hoping the legislature will eventually come up wit…

> I don't think I can tell someone else they don't deserve to earn minimum wage.

On the wage issue are you talking about the specifics of how prop 22 defines the earnings floor for drivers [0]? It definitely sets a standard even. It pays some for expenses ($0.30/mile) and the 120% minimum wage while on a ride covers a bit of time spent driving between rides. I could see though how if you have high expenses and don't get many rides you will not earn the minimum wage.

0 - https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_22,_App-Based...

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#857

Post by manigandham »

AlexandrB wrote: post #819
dmode wrote: post #231

I dislike Uber and Lyft's practices as much as the next guy. But I also believe AB5 is a terrible bill and will be voting in November to exempt Uber and Lyft from AB5. AB5 was written to impose a 20th century employment model to a 21st century situation. As such, the bill is distorted that it carve out hundreds of exemptions to musicians, freelancers, journalists, doctors, hair stylists and so on and so forth. A bill…

> AB5 was written to impose a 20th century employment model to a 21st century situation. Why should employees give up rights just because it's the 21st century? Make no mistake, that's Uber/Lyft's entire advantage over traditional taxis: skirting hard-won employment regulation to lower costs at the expense of workers.

They're not employees. What rights are missing? Do you have an issue with contractors in other industries? Why or why not?

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#858

Post by OCASM »

ironman1478 wrote: post #771
seankimdesign wrote: post #699

Kudos on that moral victory California. You robbed my mobility-impaired younger sister of her legs without providing any alternative. Fuck your sorry excuse of public transit filled with gawkers and requiring her to wonder whether there will be connected sidewalks for her to solve her last-two-mile trip on her chair. "Oh, but Uber and Lyft were brought down by their own greed" Well, where is the non-greedy alternativ…

This is a bit unfair. Yes, the public transit in cali sucks, but there needs to be a minimum standard with how we treat workers. Gig work was initially framed as a side thing where somebody going to the same area as you hops in your car and you share a ride. Like on demand carpooling. That is no longer the case, its people's livelihoods due to economic inequities and lack of normal jobs available to match the demand…

I'm pretty sure the people you want to help would consider having a job a better treatment than being unemployed.

If California's jobs suck, move. Yes, it's hard but it beats the alternative of destroying more jobs through misguided regulations.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#859

Post by manigandham »

people_not_bots wrote: post #684
bgorman wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you get to decide what a fair wage is, or what a positive force in the economy is? Taxis are an obsolete service, Lyft and Uber are overwhelmingly favored by customers and businesses.

Democratic elected leaders get to decide a fair wage because they are democratically elected leaders. In terms of motivation a democratically elected leader motivated by the interests of their constituents is a better Stewart of the minimum wage than an un-elected boardroom whose primary motivation is investor value not the quality of life of the citizenry.

When most of the people they're legislating don't agree with the law, then it's not so democratic. AB5 is not for the people.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#860

Post by paulmd »

anticensor wrote: post #850
paulmd wrote: post #800

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I agree with you on one point, "ridesharing" is a silly word. I would call it something like an "Open Car Service". Let's not beat around the bush, the appropriate term already exists, it's called a "taxi service". The fact that the taxi operators provide their own vehicles is not novel.

Taxis and real-time ride sharing operate quite differently, for one, I cannot just turn up and hand signal to stop a moving vehicle from the latter.

False, you cannot street-hail all kinds of taxis - for example in New York it's only yellow cabs+green cabs, black car taxis you need to use an app or call.

Uber is a pretty standard black-car taxi service, with an app.

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