Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

lyft.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

771–780 of 1001 posts

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#771

Post by ironman1478 »

seankimdesign wrote: post #699

Kudos on that moral victory California. You robbed my mobility-impaired younger sister of her legs without providing any alternative. Fuck your sorry excuse of public transit filled with gawkers and requiring her to wonder whether there will be connected sidewalks for her to solve her last-two-mile trip on her chair. "Oh, but Uber and Lyft were brought down by their own greed" Well, where is the non-greedy alternativ…

This is a bit unfair. Yes, the public transit in cali sucks, but there needs to be a minimum standard with how we treat workers. Gig work was initially framed as a side thing where somebody going to the same area as you hops in your car and you share a ride. Like on demand carpooling. That is no longer the case, its people's livelihoods due to economic inequities and lack of normal jobs available to match the demand for jobs. Gig work should NOT be how people make a living, but due to reality it is what many people have resorted to and these people deserve to be treated like employees for normal companies. I have been in many ride shares where drivers drive from hours away to drive in SF or the bay area in general and then go back at night. They do this because their local economy doesn't provide an equivalently paying job (or jobs at all). Instead of telling people "hey go drive around endlessly in SF, hours from where you live. Also, you get no benefits" we can choose to bolster those local economies or we can choose to force companies to provide benefits. Either one of those options will make their lives better. We have chosen the latter, even though we should have chosen the former but politicians don't give a crap about people who aren't in the bay area, LA, or san diego. So they're screwed and forced to take these bad jobs.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#772

Post by Lendal »

carlosdp wrote: post #476
mcguire wrote: post #437

" As employees they would have to work set schedules and shifts, would not be able to work for multiple app-based companies and would have reduced earning potential — and many jobs would actually be eliminated. " ( https://prop22facts.com/lyft/ ) Is that something mandated by California? As far as I know, everywhere else I've been, work-schedules and anti-moonlighting are restrictions placed by the employer, not the…

I hear this a lot, that Lyft/Uber could allow the same flexibility if they wanted to. It's not that the law dictates this shift, it's that the economics do. Requiring full employment means you can hire less drivers. If you have less drivers, you need more control over when they drive in order to make sure when customers are looking for a ride, they can find one, hence shifts.

When they talk about "shift work" they're referring to the way the taxi industry works. The reason the taxi industry works that way is because most drivers drive company cars which are owned & maintained by the company. Drivers that own their own cars can drive whenever they want to. There are no shifts.

I drove a taxicab for more than a year back in the 90's. That's the way it worked then. Most drivers were shift because they "rented" the car from the company and shared it with other workers. A few drivers were owner-operators who got to set their own hours. This is closer to the model that Uber & Lyft operate under today.

So when Lyft claims that they would be forced to enforce shift work on their owner-operators, this is a lie. There is already a model for this type of driving that predates Uber & Lyft and they're just choosing to ignore it now because it serves their current interests.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#773

Post by saghm »

seankimdesign wrote: post #699

Kudos on that moral victory California. You robbed my mobility-impaired younger sister of her legs without providing any alternative. Fuck your sorry excuse of public transit filled with gawkers and requiring her to wonder whether there will be connected sidewalks for her to solve her last-two-mile trip on her chair. "Oh, but Uber and Lyft were brought down by their own greed" Well, where is the non-greedy alternativ…

> If there really exists a market that is sustainable via the terms outlined by the court of California, why the hell isn't anyone competing in this market that famously yields no incumbent benefits?

There was a cheaper alternative for companies to provide up until now, so I don't think the current lack of this type of service proves that it couldn't exist. Companies will tend to provide the service that costs them the least in the absence of other incentives; that's why labor laws exist in the first place. The fact that child labor and unsafe working conditions used to be the norm wasn't due to it being impossible to make a profit without them, but due to companies having no incentive to get rid of them.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#774

Post by colechristensen »

AgloeDreams wrote: post #461
dmode wrote: post #231

I dislike Uber and Lyft's practices as much as the next guy. But I also believe AB5 is a terrible bill and will be voting in November to exempt Uber and Lyft from AB5. AB5 was written to impose a 20th century employment model to a 21st century situation. As such, the bill is distorted that it carve out hundreds of exemptions to musicians, freelancers, journalists, doctors, hair stylists and so on and so forth. A bill…

'Ridesharing' (Which is a hilarious term for the simple fact that the ride is not being shared, the driver is not intending to go to your favorite bar. ) isn't a 21st century situation or solution. It's not a profitable or a good force in an economy, it does not pay a reasonable wage for anyone to live on, it is not environmentally friendly unless done in large quantities of people,(which is called a bus). Ridesharin…

In many many uber/lyft rides i have met a very few drivers who actually were doing real ride sharing. A person would get off work and turn on the app to get a fare in the direction of home.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#776

Post by BobbyJo »

jedberg wrote: post #755
codefreakxff wrote: post #747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called a Taxi. They will drive to your location, pick you up, and take you anywhere you want to go.

You've clearly never tried to use a taxi in California.

Or anywhere, in my experience. I've never had a taxi experience that wasn't terrible. Even before Uber and Lyft came along. That includes several different cities.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#777

Post by resters »

Along with the bipartisan trend toward authoritarianism is a bipartisan trend away from economic freedom.

Some want to hinder our ability to trade with Chinese firms or hire foreign workers, others want to hinder our ability to take gig economy jobs or operate our home as an Airbnb.

The idea that these authoritarians have is that economic freedom is bad.

Why not just make laws that very specifically protect the most vulnerable and foist the tax burden fairly on everyone else? It's a historical accident that employee provided healthcare is tax deductible and that workers comp and social security/medicare are funded by payroll taxes.

All of the quirky rules and perverse incentives exist because at some point in the past they benefited some established interest group.

There is a very disappointing lack of creativity and willingness to look at the simple issue at the core of all of these problems. We can't let the most vulnerable workers be victimized, but we must do everything possible to preserve their economic freedom.

I think UBI is the closest we are seeing to a meaningful rethink of how we handle entitlement spending. We need the equivalent creativity to help manage the funding side.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#778

Post by fumar »

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #695
vertbhrtn wrote: post #463

It's fascinating how the subsistence wage is simultaneously too low for workers and too high corporations.

It's because people can't afford the true cost of a rideshare if a driver needs to make subsistence wage, and the company needs to be profitable. In a difference landscape the Uber model might be sustainable, but the middle class is being completely gutted. California especially is headed toward a Hawaii-esque bifurcated economy, comprised of a wealthy minority and a massive underclass of service-industry people cate…

Is that future different in any other of the top 5 states in the US? What can be done about it?

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#779

Post by WrtCdEvrydy »

seankimdesign wrote: post #699

Kudos on that moral victory California. You robbed my mobility-impaired younger sister of her legs without providing any alternative. Fuck your sorry excuse of public transit filled with gawkers and requiring her to wonder whether there will be connected sidewalks for her to solve her last-two-mile trip on her chair. "Oh, but Uber and Lyft were brought down by their own greed" Well, where is the non-greedy alternativ…

It's been stayed as of 10 minutes ago... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24227481

The parent post (from Lyft) looks hilarious in hindsight.

Edit: Added context

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#780

Post by michaelmrose »

jMyles wrote: post #760
fred_is_fred wrote: post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or taxis.

I find it a little vulgar to suggest the regulatory capture variant of a service to a disabled person who was benefiting from the more libre configuration.

Maybe deregulate taxis instead of letting companies bypass labor restrictions with a polite fiction.
Post reply on HN