The Suspected Poisoning of Alexey Navalny, Putin’s Most Prominent Adversary • Hacker News Board

Re: The Suspected Poisoning of Alexey Navalny, Putin’s Most Prominent Adversary

#131

Post by vkou » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 7:26 PM UTC

jetzzz wrote: post #56

jldugger wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nginx?

And IntelliJ IDEA of course, which I think many HN visitors are using in one form or another. This still doesn't change the original point that Putin regime has been very damaging to Russia.

Was it more or less damaging then the tire-pyre disaster that the country went through in the 90s, prior to him taking power?

That's when my family left, and while my remaining relatives have soured against Putin in recent years (Funny how that happened... They were all for him, right up until ~2017, or so), nobody feels nostalgic for the 90s.

Let's not whitewash history. The Russian public has only recently started souring on him. The brain drain didn't start because of him - it started 28 years ago, as soon as the borders were opened.

Re: The Suspected Poisoning of Alexey Navalny, Putin’s Most Prominent Adversary

#132

Post by adamnemecek » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 7:29 PM UTC

grisha wrote: post #102

adamnemecek wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine the geographic environment has something to do with it.

Like, lots of resources and consequently failure to move from extensive to intensive growth mindset?

No, just bleak, cold, depressing, vast spaces that make you feel meaningless.

Re: The Suspected Poisoning of Alexey Navalny, Putin’s Most Prominent Adversary

#133

Post by zipwitch » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 7:30 PM UTC

mcsb4 wrote: post #82

mhh__ wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The official story would always be vague. This is spook territory not regular police. A Scotland Yard team went to interview Litvinenko's assassins (One of whom was being treated for radiation poisoning - fancy that!), and they were completely outgunned by the FSB. Also, as to CCTV, it is extremely prevalent in London but not as omniscient in places like Salisbury. Security services sit on information like this for y…

The fact that it was invented in Russia doesn't mean that this sample was Russian made. Every decent chemist can produce that stuff. We were also shown powerpoint slides of Saddams truck-mounted labs of WMD - they just didn't exist. The second mission was to "win hearts and minds". Result: 1,000,000 people dead. Women, old people, children and toddlers included. Just watch collateral damage again. Do it 100,000 times…

>Every decent chemist can produce that stuff.

After reading, "Novichok agents: a historical, current, and toxicological perspective"[1] it looks like the only places to have produced such agents are Russian chemical weapon labs and the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons Central Analytical Database.

Maybe someone who works in the field can provide some more evidence either way?

[1]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6039123/#R19

Re: The Suspected Poisoning of Alexey Navalny, Putin’s Most Prominent Adversary

#134

Post by nate_meurer » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 7:32 PM UTC

boo_boo wrote: post #67

nate_meurer wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the current sanctions against Russia were a direct response to Russia's paramilitary invasion of a peaceful neighbor and theft of a large portion of their country. If Saudi Arabia were to commit a comparable offense, I assure you they'd face a comparable response, or worse (remember what happened to Saddam Hussein).

You don't consider the situation in Yemen comparable? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian-led_intervention...

What Saudi Arabia has done in Yemen is a war crime in my opinion. But it's also part of an ongoing proxy war against Iran, whose government has made it clear that the goal is to destabilize the Saudi regime. So no, not comparable to Russia's ongoing attempt to reassemble its lost Soviet empire by destabilizing and invading neighbors who pose no threat to it.

Go read that wikipedia article you posted. It links to a good explanation of the Iran-Arab proxy conflict.

Re: The Suspected Poisoning of Alexey Navalny, Putin’s Most Prominent Adversary

#135

Post by huhtenberg » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 7:35 PM UTC

arethuza wrote: post #18

jgwil2 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all are dealt with "unceremoniously." See Alexander Litvinenko[0], who was not only poisoned but in such a way that there was no plausible deniability for FSB. More than anything they appeared to be making a spectacle of their impunity. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvine...

Also Sergei Skripal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Skripal Using WMD to take out a single person does indeed seem like making a political statement.

It's a rather confusing statement though since Skripal survived this WMD attack.

Re: The Suspected Poisoning of Alexey Navalny, Putin’s Most Prominent Adversary

#136

Post by vkou » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 7:35 PM UTC

martythemaniak wrote: post #103

enkid wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeltsin certainly began the process, but it's hard to argue that Putin hasn't acted very aggressively to consolidate power. The idea that just because it was a process that started under a previous ruler, the currently ruler shouldn't be blamed for embracing and expanding the corrupt policies makes no sense. Also, what is the encroachment you are talking about against Russia? Are you talking about allowing the people…

Yes, this is indeed the "encroachment" GP talks about. The Russocentric worldview does not see non-Russian easterners as sentient beings capable of making choices, they are little more than mooks and serfs which rightfully belong to them. A Czech or a Georgian cannot decide to join NATO or the EU, it is "The West" stealing Russia's stuff. This is perfectly fine view if you're Russian (who wouldn't want to control gia…

The reason for that, of course, is that Russia, like any right-thinking country, wants to be surrounded by friendly or neutral buffer states.

If Mexico and Canada entered a military alliance with China, how do you think Washington would react? How long would it take until we would see regime change in Ottawa?

It's not a 'perfectly fine' view, it is just a natural consequence of being encircled.

Re: The Suspected Poisoning of Alexey Navalny, Putin’s Most Prominent Adversary

#137

Post by boo_boo » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 7:36 PM UTC

nate_meurer wrote: post #129

raverbashing wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing SA did not invade Yemen, had nothing to do with Khashoggi "suffering a paper cut" and absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 neither

Yes, thanks, we know. The Saudi Arabian regime is shamelessly and violently fascist, and corrupt at every level. What the fuck does that have to do with Russia's invasion of Ukraine and theft of the Crimean peninsula, and the commensurate response by the international community?

You stated:

> If Saudi Arabia were to commit a comparable offense, I assure you they'd face a comparable response

Offenses were cited to you. Where is the "commensurate response by the international community" to these offenses?

Re: The Suspected Poisoning of Alexey Navalny, Putin’s Most Prominent Adversary

#138

Post by rasz » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 7:42 PM UTC

vogre wrote: post #23

supernova87a wrote: post #10

I remember an essay a few years ago (it was the Ukrainian poisoning?) where the author essentially said that Russia's brand has basically been spoiled for outsiders. (political brand certainly, but maybe overall as a country). As in, Russia is no longer a trustworthy seeming, interesting, attractive place to want to go visit or collaborate with or be associated with. I mean, of course it depends on the level of detai…

There always were a lot of propaganda involved since forever. Even now Russia is demonised in Western Media, mostly quite unfair.

As someone who was born and grew up under Russian occupation I can assure you everyone on the inside of Iron Curtain was aware how bad it was even back then.

Re: The Suspected Poisoning of Alexey Navalny, Putin’s Most Prominent Adversary

#139

Post by vkou » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 7:50 PM UTC

nate_meurer wrote: post #134

boo_boo wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't consider the situation in Yemen comparable? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian-led_intervention...

What Saudi Arabia has done in Yemen is a war crime in my opinion. But it's also part of an ongoing proxy war against Iran, whose government has made it clear that the goal is to destabilize the Saudi regime. So no, not comparable to Russia's ongoing attempt to reassemble its lost Soviet empire by destabilizing and invading neighbors who pose no threat to it. Go read that wikipedia article you posted. It links to a go…

Crimea is also part of an ongoing proxy conflict between NATO and Russia, where NATO seeks to encircle the latter. The wars with Ukraine and Georgia were about maintaining buffer states (And to serve as a warning to the rest), rather than reassembling an empire.

Or at least, the facts can line up with this interpretation.

Re: The Suspected Poisoning of Alexey Navalny, Putin’s Most Prominent Adversary

#140

Post by nate_meurer » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 7:52 PM UTC

boo_boo wrote: post #137

nate_meurer wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, thanks, we know. The Saudi Arabian regime is shamelessly and violently fascist, and corrupt at every level. What the fuck does that have to do with Russia's invasion of Ukraine and theft of the Crimean peninsula, and the commensurate response by the international community?

You stated: > If Saudi Arabia were to commit a comparable offense, I assure you they'd face a comparable response Offenses were cited to you. Where is the "commensurate response by the international community" to these offenses?

Read my comment again. I said that if SA were to do what Russia did -- invade a peaceful neighbor with no provocation and steal a portion of their country -- then I'm confident that sanctions would be levied against them. Pretty simple proposition, really.