Rideshare operations are being suspended in California • Hacker News Board

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#701

Post by sampsonitify » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 7:27 PM UTC

AgloeDreams wrote: post #493

mcguire wrote: post #437

" As employees they would have to work set schedules and shifts, would not be able to work for multiple app-based companies and would have reduced earning potential — and many jobs would actually be eliminated. " ( https://prop22facts.com/lyft/ ) Is that something mandated by California? As far as I know, everywhere else I've been, work-schedules and anti-moonlighting are restrictions placed by the employer, not the…

This would be a positive force as it would reduce overcrowding of the local market and ensure work and pay for drivers. The Uber and Lyft driver pool is too large for reasonable pay for demand by nature. Something really important in an economy, is security of work and pay. For those who are on the schedule they can depend on their job to be able to live. For those who would not be on the schedule (due to demand) Tha…

So why don't you start a competitor?

The idea that there is a gap in the market is something that people are looking for, on Hacker News most especially, and if this is a legitimate gap that Uber and Lyft are ignoring for silly reasons, then there should be a bunch of startups to take their place pretty quickly.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#702

Post by hpcjoe » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 7:27 PM UTC

fizzled wrote: post #398

woeirua wrote: post #29

I suspect that California is going to backpedal on this pretty quickly. Uber and Lyft are popular. Going back to taxis is going to be very unpopular. IMO, if the California Republican party was smart they would make this a wedge issue in the next election. "Elect us, and we'll make it possible to use Uber again."

In Portland, Radio Cab has an Android/iOS app. I switched to them once they modernized. In this case, Lyft/Uber caused taxis to improve infrastructure. That's a win.

Competition tends to force organizations to evolve to meet the threat. That is, unless some government intervenes in the market, distorting the effect. Then you get a distorted market with inefficient allocation of resources.

Seems to happen quite a bit in monoideological areas.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#703

Post by mixmastamyk » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 7:28 PM UTC

dmode wrote: post #231

I dislike Uber and Lyft's practices as much as the next guy. But I also believe AB5 is a terrible bill and will be voting in November to exempt Uber and Lyft from AB5. AB5 was written to impose a 20th century employment model to a 21st century situation. As such, the bill is distorted that it carve out hundreds of exemptions to musicians, freelancers, journalists, doctors, hair stylists and so on and so forth. A bill…

It's also forcing me into an $800 a year LLC I don't want for software contracts. :-/

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#704

Post by smsm42 » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 7:28 PM UTC

adrr wrote: post #150

aceman22 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In California, most cities are very spread out so taking taxis anywhere are super expensive. You can't just hail one down on the street like other cities, you have to order one over the phone to come pick you up from where ever you are.

There are taxi apps that are similar in functionality to Uber and Lyft. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/curb-the-taxi-app/id299226386

I decided to check for myself and registered in the app. The nearest ride is in 20 minutes (about 2x from the rideshares) and the price from my house to SFO is about $160. My last ride with Uber was about $70. Make your own conclusions. Oh yes and the app is buggy as heck, losing internet connection all the time (on my home wifi!) and getting stuck in random places.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#705

Post by AgloeDreams » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 7:28 PM UTC

tathougies wrote: post #542

AgloeDreams wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Ridesharing' (Which is a hilarious term for the simple fact that the ride is not being shared, the driver is not intending to go to your favorite bar. ) isn't a 21st century situation or solution. It's not a profitable or a good force in an economy, it does not pay a reasonable wage for anyone to live on, it is not environmentally friendly unless done in large quantities of people,(which is called a bus). Ridesharin…

> it does not pay a reasonable wage for anyone to live on, Why is the purpose of a wage to live on? Many uber drivers drive part time for fun or extra pocket change. The existence of thousands of uber drivers -- who in my experience, have all been quite reasonable, nice people -- seem to directly contradict your claim that it does not pay a 'reasonable wage'. Clearly, it does for those invested parties.

Many Uber drivers are great people! I know a bunch, I know how they have been screwed. The costs are never upfront. The Driving rarely lasts as people eventually get taken out by upkeep expenses, waiting for fares, and lost values in vehicles.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#706

Post by oxymoran » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 7:28 PM UTC

So you all want to turn them back into taxi drivers? Do you remember how crappy and expensive taxi service was? Ride sharing is not a career. It’s sharing a ride to make extra cash. Yes, we are runnning out of actual careers, I get that. But turning gigs into careers is not the answer. UBI + gig work+ universal healthcare is the answer you were looking for.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#707

Post by slg » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 7:29 PM UTC

mumblemumble wrote: post #664

lsiebert wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically this. As best I can tell, most of the flexibility Uber and Lyft want is the flexibility to pay people less and give them less benefits and prevent them from being able to unionize/organize effectively.

Assuming that what Lyft is saying about "4 out of 5 drivers don't support" is accurate, that would seem to imply that this is also about giving flexibility to all the people who are only driving 5 hours a week to pick up some spare pocket change. Which is the model for how this would mostly work that is invoked by the word "rideshare." I do see a potential problem here of the interests of people who do this as their…

People being taken advantage of by unfair business practices are usually still making an active choice to participate in those unfair practices. People making below minimum wage would likely rather keep that below minimum wage job than be fired because the company refuses to pay them more. That is still not a valid argument against the minimum wage.

A business model that relies on unfair business practices is not a viable business model. We just need to make sure that the employees caught in this transition have a social safety net that protects them from the financial repercussions of implementing these higher standards for all employees.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#708

Post by silviogutierrez » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 7:29 PM UTC

yzmtf2008 wrote: post #676

silviogutierrez wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a good point. But I think taken to the extreme: who wouldn't prefer a private air-conditioned taxi over 100 ˚F subway platforms? In this hypothetical: we're assuming the facilities are good enough that the experience for the disabled is within reasonable parity. On the other hand, if it means having to go 40 blocks uptown, just to find an elevator then head back downtown, the system is inadequate and my narr…

> who wouldn't prefer a private air-conditioned taxi over 100 ˚F subway platforms? When it's prohibitively expensive to take private air-conditioned taxi. If taxi is, as you said, both cheaper and provides a better experience, why not? Are we torturing people just for your poetic justice?

That's fair, if it's cheaper including externalities.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#709

Post by twobeararms » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 7:29 PM UTC

wedn3sday wrote: post #660

jiveturkey wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you've never heard of being on-call? Tech and healthcare have very well established demand supply systems. Some mechanical service sectors as well - tow trucks, infrastructure repair.

Back when I had to work be on call there was a minimum number of hours, so if I got a call at 2am from a client and I fixed the problem in 15 minutes I would still bill both them and the company for 2 hours. Not sure if there's a law mandating this or it was just the company policy.

On call and showing up for a work request are both mandated by law in CA. That's where a lot of issues people are overlooking lay with Uber/Lyft having employees. In their current model they would have to pay drivers just for logging into the app. If the driver did one customer drive and it took 10 minutes, they would have to pay the driver minimum 2 hours.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#710

Post by jawns » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 7:29 PM UTC

lokar wrote: post #680

twobeararms wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In California though an issue with your "micros-shifts" is that California State Laws would apply things like call in pay for this and would also have to pay minimum hours for an employee showing up for a short shift. If an employee gets called in to do 30 minutes of work, the company has to pay the employee at least a certain amount of hours I think it's 2 or 4. So that micro shift of a 10 minute ride, Uber/Lyft wou…

That seems like a reasonable thing to change in the law

Yeah, I would much rather see lawmakers recognize that ridesharing workers are employees, and change the law to accommodate micro-shifts, than to say that because micro-shifts go against existing law, ridesharing workers can't possibly be employees.

That said, there is certainly a good reason for minimum-length shifts and on-call payments in other industries, so I'm willing to acknowledge that striking the right balance that protects workers across the board might be difficult.