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Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

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Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#691
post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Ridesharing' (Which is a hilarious term for the simple fact that the ride is not being shared, the driver is not intending to go to your favorite bar. ) isn't a 21st century situation or solution. It's not a profitable or a good force in an economy, it does not pay a reasonable wage for anyone to live on, it is not environmentally friendly unless done in large quantities of people,(which is called a bus). Ridesharin…

Ridesharing created a more or less competitive market for this slice of the transportation sector. Competitive markets are the best way to allocate resources. If you don't agree with that, it will be hard to have a productive discussion. But if you do agree with that, shouldn't we resolve inequalities by directly supporting the least fortunate (with cash) rather than force parties into arbitrary economic relationship…

Competitive markets are the best way for capital to extract value from workers, because without collective bargaining they pit individuals against huge corporate operations with wildly disproportionate access to legal and financial power.

They are not the best way to allocate resources - not least because they have huge social and political opportunity costs which are rarely understood by their fervent devotees.

Cash is not a solution to this, although it can be a productive first step in some limited circumstances.

The "arbitrary economic relationships" here are the ones being peddled by Uber and Lyft.

The point is neither Uber nor Lyft are viable businesses. Even with its advantages Uber is somehow managing to lose $3bn a year on its ride sharing service.

It only exists at all because investors hope it will somehow be able to throw its beta-drivers under the proverbial bus when self-driving cars finally become a thing, and too many of its drivers aren't aware of this and are expecting it to act like a long-term employer.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear this a lot, that Lyft/Uber could allow the same flexibility if they wanted to. It's not that the law dictates this shift, it's that the economics do. Requiring full employment means you can hire less drivers. If you have less drivers, you need more control over when they drive in order to make sure when customers are looking for a ride, they can find one, hence shifts.

Basically this. As best I can tell, most of the flexibility Uber and Lyft want is the flexibility to pay people less and give them less benefits and prevent them from being able to unionize/organize effectively.

No employer would accept fulltime employees working for their direct competitor at the same time?

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#694

" As employees they would have to work set schedules and shifts, would not be able to work for multiple app-based companies and would have reduced earning potential — and many jobs would actually be eliminated. " ( https://prop22facts.com/lyft/ ) Is that something mandated by California? As far as I know, everywhere else I've been, work-schedules and anti-moonlighting are restrictions placed by the employer, not the…

Big Corp lying to save their bottom line? No way....

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#695

It's fascinating how the subsistence wage is simultaneously too low for workers and too high corporations.

It's because people can't afford the true cost of a rideshare if a driver needs to make subsistence wage, and the company needs to be profitable.

In a difference landscape the Uber model might be sustainable, but the middle class is being completely gutted. California especially is headed toward a Hawaii-esque bifurcated economy, comprised of a wealthy minority and a massive underclass of service-industry people catering toward their every want and need.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lyft _chose_ to hurt the drivers instead of complying with the law. This is a transparent ploy by Lyft and Uber to try and extort the state into changing the law by holding their drivers' livelihoods ransom.

Lyft isn't a charity and should not be expected to operate in an unprofitable market.

Neither Lyft nor Uber has ever made a profit. Drivers aren't the only ones being fleeced.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps laws should actually reflect what the citizens want.

What citizens want is fickle and entirely depends on framing and knowledge. Citizens want goods for cheaper, obviously. But citizens also like the concept of people and companies doing "their fair share". For example a fair amount of people were outraged when it was revealed that official Walmart policy was to direct underpaid employees into Medicaid, EBT, etc. rather than just paying them to afford basic life expens…

Citizens also want to be able to earn income as independent contractors, the way they have for decades in many other industries. But above all, citizens would like to be able to choose for themselves instead of having a few people with no idea of their experience tell them what they must do.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#698
post #344

Another group caught in the collateral damage is people in wheelchairs. Paratransit sucks in most places and where wheelchair accessible Uber/Lyft is available they provide a much better service. This is an especially vulnerable population because it's not like a wheelchair user can just find a friend with an accessible vehicle to take them to appointments, etc.

I was in an Uber rideshare once with a blind person. Had no idea they were blind until the driver pulled over and got out (which initially confused me) to help them to their house.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#699
Kudos on that moral victory California. You robbed my mobility-impaired younger sister of her legs without providing any alternative. Fuck your sorry excuse of public transit filled with gawkers and requiring her to wonder whether there will be connected sidewalks for her to solve her last-two-mile trip on her chair.

"Oh, but Uber and Lyft were brought down by their own greed" Well, where is the non-greedy alternative in this market, employing legitimate full-benefit workers and serving their community while making earnest profits? If there really exists a market that is sustainable via the terms outlined by the court of California, why the hell isn't anyone competing in this market that famously yields no incumbent benefits?

If, on the other hand, if the math doesn't check out and there isn't a viable market, then what is being accomplished by this ruling? It's both shutting down an extremely useful service while taking jobs away from people who need it most, when they need it most.

This is a terrible decision that is so far removed from reality that it's almost laughable. While I admire the idealistic worldview of those who rule from above, this is a classic case of the road to hell being paved by good intentions.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of freelancers do not feel like they are being exploited. Source: I run a company that helps freelance/contract software engineers find work.

I have you ever worked as a freelancer? I have and so do many many people I know. Go to a bar with all your freelancing friends and play this drinking game: take a drink every time your client has shafted you. You will be drunk very quickly. https://vimeo.com/22053820

I have worked as a freelancer for many years. I now run a company that finds work and manages clients for freelancers.
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