Microsoft's office: Why insiders think top management has lost its way • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft's office: Why insiders think top management has lost its way

#101

Post by ajays » Fri, Apr 08, 2011, 5:47 AM UTC

To quote Steve Jobs: "The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste. They have absolutely no taste. And I don't mean that in a small way, I mean that in a big way, in the sense that they don't think of original ideas, and they don't bring much culture into their products. "

This is so true. With other leading companies, you'll often see a product and it'll be so well designed and everything will be so thought out, that it'll bring an instant smile to your face. With Microsoft's products, on the other hand, you're often frowning the minute you open them.

Just today, I fired up Entourage (MS Outlook for Mac) over a really flaky connection; and the first thing it does is update the Bulk Mail folder. Really, Microsoft? Would that be my first priority when I open an email client, to see what new junk mail has arrived? Then it proceeded to update other sundry folders, and near the end it did it update the Inbox (which is what I was waiting for).

Re: Microsoft's office: Why insiders think top management has lost its way

#102

Post by mirkules » Fri, Apr 08, 2011, 5:55 AM UTC

brg wrote: post #85

justanotheratom wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Apple in contrast has turned out to be surprisingly nimble and my impression is that their employees are quite happy.

I was told projects in Apple are generally endeavors by small teams. Five people write this app, four people write that subprocess. While feature staffing is similar at MS, the overhead of management, program management, and test often smothers any attempt to move fast at MS.

I don't think Microsoft's lack of innovation has anything to do with moving fast. The article nailed it by saying Ballmer and Co are in denial about their competitors.

I remember an article here on HN about how he mocked the single iPad user in the audience (I paraphrase): "look at that poor guy, slouched over his knees, trying to type awkwardly on that tablet. This isn't the wave of the future."

I understand that being an over-the-top company man is part of his public persona, but I truly believe that at some point after Bill Gates stepped down, Ballmer stopped acting and started believing the very public denial and actually living in it. And coincidentally, this is when everything started going wrong for MS. Management drank the "kool-aid", they became an organization of yes-men, following a delusional leader.

The problem isn't that middle management is smothering innovation, it is the result of upper management not providing clear, well-thought-out direction.

Re: Microsoft's office: Why insiders think top management has lost its way

#103

Post by yuhong » Fri, Apr 08, 2011, 6:18 AM UTC

kenjackson wrote: post #16

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #6

This is the natural end-game of being a hugely successful company: you box yourself in. You make so many rules about what can happen and how it all has to work that nothing can escape. They have to break up. I just don't see any other way around it. Each little new idea that might help somebody competes with dozens of special interests all looking out for some little fiefdom or concern that may or may not be importan…

The open question is whether Google and Facebook will also end up in this same spot. As you said, everyone will end up here. There's virtually no way a rational company can avoid it. It's textbook Innovator's Dilemma. Eventually you're faced with a situation that there is a new product/service that is cannibalizing your product. You can hasten the cannibalization of your cash cow and maybe succeed in this new space (…

When the secret copyright-related Trans-Pacific Partnership treaty made Hacker News, I asked "Any idea on how to finally fix all this?" partly due to the fact that I was getting frustrated with what was happening and what was causing it: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2315729

Re: Microsoft's office: Why insiders think top management has lost its way

#104

Post by Osiris » Fri, Apr 08, 2011, 6:28 AM UTC

Google has apparently taken this lesson to heart. With Page taking over, it looks like his goal is to allow each group to act more independently, like startups, and to reduce the management structure so teams have more flexibility to do what they want to be successful.

Re: Microsoft's office: Why insiders think top management has lost its way

#105

Post by stretchwithme » Fri, Apr 08, 2011, 7:37 AM UTC

cabalamat wrote: post #94

archangel_one wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but there is no evidence that such a system can remain for any significant length of time (or in most cases even come about in the first place) in practice. If you look at any country of significant size they mostly appear to be ruled by a committee or an absolute dictator. The committees could be said to generally be doing a bad job but nowhere near as bad as the worst cases of the dictators, but nobody has th…

An absolute ruler who is competent can get a lot done. An absolute ruler who is incompetent or bad for his people, OTOH, is hard to remove.

I think those absolute rulers whose territories are small and whose populations can easily leave probably make more sound decisions. Singapore seems well run, for example. The people can remove a ruler by removing themselves.

Re: Microsoft's office: Why insiders think top management has lost its way

#106

Post by stretchwithme » Fri, Apr 08, 2011, 7:47 AM UTC

cabalamat wrote: post #90

stretchwithme wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its interesting to me that one of the most successful absolute monarchies, Great Britain, in the end became ruled by committee. And eventually lost its empire, with the next great power ruled a committee constrained by a constitution. And that constitution eroding away has led to the committee pretty much pissing it away. So, yeah, committees are not good. A system governed by sensible rules that rewards smart action…

> Its interesting to me that one of the most successful absolute monarchies, Great Britain Was Britain ever an absolute monarchy? Possibly under its first king, James I, but none of the succeeding monarchs ever had absolute power.

I guess that's true. It's real strength was probably the rule of law and property rights, which Parliament didn't erode while the House of Lords had power.

Re: Microsoft's office: Why insiders think top management has lost its way

#107

Post by Luyt » Fri, Apr 08, 2011, 8:11 AM UTC

VladRussian wrote: post #56

everybody/everything is subject to natural lifecycle. At 35 one is completely different from the one at 15. The complex living system like a large company is subject to it as well. You go through life, you change, you age [the undead of course are exception from the rule, like vampires or IBM]

+1 for the mention of the undead. COBOL is the undead. It refuses to die, billions of lines of COBOL still run today and will still run 50 years from now, probably much longer. In my nightmares I see an Undead Arcane Mage cranking out PROCEDURE DIVISIONS for centuries to come.

Re: Microsoft's office: Why insiders think top management has lost its way

#108

Post by binarycheese » Fri, Apr 08, 2011, 2:55 PM UTC

dsuriano wrote: post #2

"Windows Everywhere" is a bad strategy for Microsoft. I still don't think Windows Phone 7 was a good name. Why didn't they just go with Microsoft Phone or something?

Zune Phone would have been better than that horrible WP7 name.

Re: Microsoft's office: Why insiders think top management has lost its way

#109

Post by goldmab » Fri, Apr 08, 2011, 3:04 PM UTC

ajays wrote: post #101

To quote Steve Jobs: "The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste. They have absolutely no taste. And I don't mean that in a small way, I mean that in a big way, in the sense that they don't think of original ideas, and they don't bring much culture into their products. " This is so true. With other leading companies, you'll often see a product and it'll be so well designed and everything will be so th…

Making usable software is extremely difficult, and I don't think Microsoft has been much worse at it than any of the other big companies. They have both well-designed products and poorly-designed products.

It's such a huge company with so many different development teams of varying quality that it's silly to attribute the behavior of Entourage to all of Microsoft, as in, "Really, Microsoft?"

Re: Microsoft's office: Why insiders think top management has lost its way

#110

Post by ajays » Fri, Apr 08, 2011, 3:18 PM UTC

goldmab wrote: post #109

ajays wrote: post #101

To quote Steve Jobs: "The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste. They have absolutely no taste. And I don't mean that in a small way, I mean that in a big way, in the sense that they don't think of original ideas, and they don't bring much culture into their products. " This is so true. With other leading companies, you'll often see a product and it'll be so well designed and everything will be so th…

Making usable software is extremely difficult, and I don't think Microsoft has been much worse at it than any of the other big companies. They have both well-designed products and poorly-designed products. It's such a huge company with so many different development teams of varying quality that it's silly to attribute the behavior of Entourage to all of Microsoft, as in, "Really, Microsoft?"

This is just but one example. I could give dozens more.

The reality is: using MSFT products _often_ leave one frustrated and exasperated. These little paper cuts add up.