Rideshare operations are being suspended in California • Hacker News Board

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#531

Post by nxc18 » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 6:52 PM UTC

AgloeDreams wrote: post #493

mcguire wrote: post #437

" As employees they would have to work set schedules and shifts, would not be able to work for multiple app-based companies and would have reduced earning potential — and many jobs would actually be eliminated. " ( https://prop22facts.com/lyft/ ) Is that something mandated by California? As far as I know, everywhere else I've been, work-schedules and anti-moonlighting are restrictions placed by the employer, not the…

This would be a positive force as it would reduce overcrowding of the local market and ensure work and pay for drivers. The Uber and Lyft driver pool is too large for reasonable pay for demand by nature. Something really important in an economy, is security of work and pay. For those who are on the schedule they can depend on their job to be able to live. For those who would not be on the schedule (due to demand) Tha…

Yeah I don't know maybe this is your experience. Maybe you're in a crowded city or something where everyone is tripping over themselves to drive for Uber/Lyft, but where I live there are often not enough drivers to meet demand.

Having been stranded far from home, both late night and in the early evening, I see Uber & Lyft as providing a valuable service.

Having been taken advantage of by taxi drivers on multiple occasions (I don't think I've ever actually had a good taxi experience) I don't want to go back to the way things were. Maybe other people like being defrauded by taxi drivers? Maybe people just forget how bad the taxi system is, and that at one point people were cheering the demise of the old taxi system for a reason.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#532

Post by tathougies » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 6:52 PM UTC

AgloeDreams wrote: post #493

mcguire wrote: post #437

" As employees they would have to work set schedules and shifts, would not be able to work for multiple app-based companies and would have reduced earning potential — and many jobs would actually be eliminated. " ( https://prop22facts.com/lyft/ ) Is that something mandated by California? As far as I know, everywhere else I've been, work-schedules and anti-moonlighting are restrictions placed by the employer, not the…

This would be a positive force as it would reduce overcrowding of the local market and ensure work and pay for drivers. The Uber and Lyft driver pool is too large for reasonable pay for demand by nature. Something really important in an economy, is security of work and pay. For those who are on the schedule they can depend on their job to be able to live. For those who would not be on the schedule (due to demand) Tha…

And yet, Uber and Lyft have reduced drunk driving rates, provided mobility to thousands of people who otherwise may not have it, and generally made life easier for millions, if not billions, of people around the world. It's almost like one can enrich themselves while helping others.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#533

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 6:52 PM UTC

numpad0 wrote: post #71

kaesar14 wrote: post #13

Why can't we have a new worker classification that allows gig workers to have both the flexibility the job entails + better benefits/protections?

Because there’s no problems with “part time jobs” classification, other than that employers are required to observe laws and protect workers?

[deleted]

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#534

Post by crondung » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 6:52 PM UTC

tehwebguy wrote: post #460

mcguire wrote: post #437

" As employees they would have to work set schedules and shifts, would not be able to work for multiple app-based companies and would have reduced earning potential — and many jobs would actually be eliminated. " ( https://prop22facts.com/lyft/ ) Is that something mandated by California? As far as I know, everywhere else I've been, work-schedules and anti-moonlighting are restrictions placed by the employer, not the…

Yeah I am fairly sure it's a straight up lie! Just because someone is an employee doesn't mean the employer can't give them flexible hours

if you pick your own hours and your own pickups, you are not anyone's employee -you by definition are your own boss. to be an employee, you have to have your hours and your work defined by your employer. employers tell you what work to do and when to do it. flexible hours don't work when at 4pm on tuesday dispatch yells you to pick someone up.

california is forcing all rideshare contractors to be employees. that's not just a checkbox on a form.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#535

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 6:53 PM UTC

pottertheotter wrote: post #122

bgorman wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The heart of the issue is big labor unions want more power, and independent contractor status is a threat to their power.

Can you provide some sources on this? Would like to read about it.

[deleted]

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#536

Post by boreas » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 6:53 PM UTC

AgloeDreams wrote: post #461

dmode wrote: post #231

I dislike Uber and Lyft's practices as much as the next guy. But I also believe AB5 is a terrible bill and will be voting in November to exempt Uber and Lyft from AB5. AB5 was written to impose a 20th century employment model to a 21st century situation. As such, the bill is distorted that it carve out hundreds of exemptions to musicians, freelancers, journalists, doctors, hair stylists and so on and so forth. A bill…

'Ridesharing' (Which is a hilarious term for the simple fact that the ride is not being shared, the driver is not intending to go to your favorite bar. ) isn't a 21st century situation or solution. It's not a profitable or a good force in an economy, it does not pay a reasonable wage for anyone to live on, it is not environmentally friendly unless done in large quantities of people,(which is called a bus). Ridesharin…

Ridesharing created a more or less competitive market for this slice of the transportation sector. Competitive markets are the best way to allocate resources. If you don't agree with that, it will be hard to have a productive discussion.

But if you do agree with that, shouldn't we resolve inequalities by directly supporting the least fortunate (with cash) rather than force parties into arbitrary economic relationships?

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#537

Post by renewiltord » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 6:53 PM UTC

murph-almighty wrote: post #396

mullingitover wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately many gig workers don't have the privilege. Gig work turning into full time work out of necessity is the band-aid on the bullet wound. The unemployment numbers were down, in large part due to gig work, but that work never should've been counted as real employment. So rather than address the underlying problem with something like the New Deal's Works Progress Administration, which was the real and neces…

I have a strong suspicion that the Works Progress Administration may come about if Biden wins the election. There's a lot of bridges going into disrepair, new transit projects we _should_ pursue- not to say that everyone employed by this program is necessarily qualified to build a bridge, but if the opportunity is there I wouldn't be shocked if it drew unemployed folks. But again, "if".

The world has changed, homie. The construction unions will slay you if you try to substitute their labour with lots of other people. You will lose the game.

If you have a WPA, it'll look like this:

* Funding for existing construction companies

* Higher pay for construction workers

* Roughly the same employment

You've got to remember that high employment is not a union goal. If they can get five $250k construction workers over fifteen $80k construction workers, they'll do it. That's not a criticism. It's a transparent aim that unions fight for their members. That's what makes them worthwhile.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#538

Post by AgloeDreams » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 6:53 PM UTC

BadassFractal wrote: post #466

agentdrtran wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I swear people forget how Uber got popular in the first place.

By providing a service that was more convenient, safer and affordable than the alternatives protected by regulatory rent-seeking.

Lol. Haha.

You mean, overcrowding a market with underpaid positions, sold with lies and marketing to make them sound better than they are, to force people with full time jobs out of work so that people could get a ride in a vehicle with no safety, security, (or originally) background verification while doing all they could to cheat regulations, driver and user privacy, tax laws, climate change, and eventually, now, rent-seek, to boost stock prices to pad Vegas parties and investor portfolios.

Modern ride sharing is not sustainable, environmentally friendly, or a 'job' and this doesn't exempt the bad behaviors by taxi companies, but understand this is the end destination of capitalism invading a regulated economy.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#539

Post by smsm42 » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 6:53 PM UTC

tmp538394722 wrote: post #41

nemothekid wrote: post #9

When I moved to CA, I put off getting a CA license for years. I always told myself I'd go to the DMV and do the paperwork, then I waited long enough to find out I would have to retake the test, until finally I just resigned to using Uber and Lyft all the time. I never thought I would need it and so I never made it a priority. So this news really sucks, as you haven't been able to schedule DMV appointments at all and…

I’d think a good ole fashioned taxi would work. Is there a reason you couldn’t or wouldn’t use one?

I remember taxis before Uber/Lyft. They sucked. They were very expensive. Low availability - I once was stuck in the middle of one 200k+ city with literally no cars available after calling several companies. After an hour or so, I had to call friends to pick me up. Then, if you get a cab, you have no idea who is your driver and have no history and no resort if something happens - you could call the dispatcher again but they won't take complaints, as it's not their business, and even if you manage to get the taxi company's support number (provided such thing exists) they'd probably ignore you. Oh yes, and last time I used it half of the drivers couldn't even make a credit card transactions - you had to have cash (hopefully at least this one is fixed now?)

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#540

Post by runarberg » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 6:54 PM UTC

jdoliner wrote: post #490

runarberg wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a true and an important concern. Municipalities and counties in California really need to step up their game and provide a viable and cheap to use alternative. Everybody deserves to be able to go where they want within their community when they want to. And we should provide these without relying on private companies with questionable labor practices.

Why step up and provide a viable and cheap alternative when you can just step down and not kill the existing cheap alternative?

Because these cheap alternatives rely on questionable labor practices.

People with limited mobility deserve the same freedom of movement as fully abled people, however that cannot come at the cost of the workers who provide it. We should be asking for both adequate transportation and fully compensated and decently paid workers.