Rideshare operations are being suspended in California • Hacker News Board

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#171

Post by Daishiman » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:58 PM UTC

bgorman wrote: post #43

subdane wrote: post #31

Am I nuts, or is the heart of this issue really the fact that our healthcare system is built on tying benefits to full time jobs?

The heart of the issue is big labor unions want more power, and independent contractor status is a threat to their power.

Labor unions in the US are comparatively powerless next to countries with actual, functional unions that are quite capable of striking, and have little lobby.

No, the heart of the issue is definitely the dismal state of health care in the US.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#172

Post by HumblyTossed » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:58 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #72

Yes, voters in the US want to give people education, healthcare, and unemployment (or basic income-ish) benefits. Voters in the US also don’t want to pay for any of this. Hence, the politicians that get elected are ones that give people education via student loans, and healthcare/unemployment benefits tied to employer/employment status. Those politicians get to claim they helped people, and they get to claim they kep…

Hasn't helped that people still view getting a job "with benefits" as some kind of badge of honor. This leads to a not small amount of people feeling that if you don't have a job "with benefits" you don't deserve any.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#173

Post by infecto » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:58 PM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #51

setpatchaddress wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question: what state government would you look to for a better model?

If you're asking for better run states, it looks like Texas is doing well but I'm unfamiliar with most other states to give you a good answer. As 20 year California resident, what I do know is that nothing has gotten better here over that time frame. Everything from infrastructure to taxes to city planning is much worse now than ever. CCPA is probably the only good outcome I can think of.

Same sentiment here as well. Its a tangent but I feel like we get the least benefit from the highest taxes. Possibly some of the worst roads in the country with outdated and dangerous interstate designs because cars are bad and public transit is good but there is no public transit. =/

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#174

Post by dhosek » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:58 PM UTC

superfamicom wrote: post #90

I've met a few drivers in Seattle who offered their own rates via text pickup. I used this to get to the airport once. I wonder how many drivers in California were doing the same thing knowing this was on the way- get your local clients and build trust and start their own mini ride service- assuming you know how to use Venmo and the like.

I've encountered something similar here, where a driver with a minivan equipped with carseats picks up direct work (courtesy of “word-of-mouth” promotion through the highly powerful local working moms group on Facebook).

[note: I'm not being sarcastic about calling the Facebook moms group “highly powerful”—they have significant civic clout in local politics/business/activism.]

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#175

Post by chongli » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:58 PM UTC

kaesar14 wrote: post #13

Why can't we have a new worker classification that allows gig workers to have both the flexibility the job entails + better benefits/protections?

Because benefits (healthcare) are so costly that the rideshare business model becomes nonviable. To that, some might claim that no business model deserves to exist if it cannot provide all of these benefits. I think that’s misguided.

The very idea that health benefits are tied to employment is the real problem. In Canada they aren’t and thus it’s far more reasonable to work as a ride share driver here. If we could go even further and add pharmacare, dental, and even basic income to the services provided by the government, then we could get rid of minimum wage laws as well. When people are truly free to walk away from any job, then the market will decide the appropriate wage. Any job offering truly unacceptable wages at that point becomes a ripe target for automation.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#176

Post by ur-whale » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:59 PM UTC

What is needed is a decentralized, p2p, version of the Uber / Lyft app based on crypto.

If anyone builds this, there will be no way central planners (I use these two word to remain polite) can stick their nose in the free exchange of money and services between drivers and driven.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#177

Post by cactus2093 » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:59 PM UTC

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #30

nemothekid wrote: post #9

When I moved to CA, I put off getting a CA license for years. I always told myself I'd go to the DMV and do the paperwork, then I waited long enough to find out I would have to retake the test, until finally I just resigned to using Uber and Lyft all the time. I never thought I would need it and so I never made it a priority. So this news really sucks, as you haven't been able to schedule DMV appointments at all and…

The average person's response to being told they'd have to take another driver's test isn't to replace driving with Uber/Lyft. You're in a unique position to be able to afford to replace all driving with ridesharing, since gas+insurance+maintenance costs are much lower than say, a month of commuting to an office via rideshare.

The irony in this comment is amazing. You're in a unique, privileged position to not even consider public transit for some trips an option.

Public transit for everyday commute to work, plus Uber/Lyft for trips outside of common commute hours or off the beaten path where public transit is less reliable, can definitely be cheaper than car ownership.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#178

Post by MAGZine » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:59 PM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #151

MAGZine wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state that scared uber and lyft off with background requirements, fingerprinting, and restricting bikelanes? I think maybe the grass is just greener.

I agree with those policies so it counts as better run for me. As far as I can tell, Uber and Lyft do operate in Texas today so it looks like everything worked out?

Yeah, they're operating again. I have little doubt that Uber and Lyft will continue to operate in california once they a) adjust their business model to pay people appropriately (they seem to be able to roll out new software quite quickly) and b) stop throwing a tantrum (which is what happened in austin).

California is one of USA's biggest markets. Even if they don't get their shit together, one of CA's many entrepreneurs will. Who wants free VC bucks?

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#179

Post by mqus » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:59 PM UTC

smallgovt wrote: post #130

mqus wrote: post #62

> the rest would have scheduled shifts, and capped hourly earnings. I don't really understand why this is necessary. Can't there still be flexible arrangements with drivers simply clocking their work and then getting some kind of salary derived from that? Can't they still get paid bonuses for driving in particularly unwanted hours? Sure, this would be a complex contract, but I don't see how this is impossible. But I'…

Without scheduled shifts, drivers will purposefully all sign up for the same shift to induce supply overflow. In this situation, drivers can game the flexibility of the system to collect a paycheck while sitting in their cars doing nothing. Even if drivers don't game the system, there will always be natural imbalance between supply and demand. Surge bonuses can mitigate this imbalance, but scheduling shifts is the mo…

Then put some kind of system in place to have on-call duty, where you get a small share of the normal payment for being available and then getting the normal rate while you are driving to the customer and driving them to their destination.

All of this is already practiced in some place in the world. Sure, it's not as easy as creating an account on the app and off you go, but the driver flexibility of choosing when to drive doesn't seem to be so hard to me.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#180

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:59 PM UTC

SamWhited wrote: post #63

We had this same thing happen in Austin when Uber and Lyft pulled out after having a hissy fit about fingerprinting and background checks and not parking in the bus lanes. As soon as they pulled out half a dozen alternatives sprung up that paid better (I always used Ride Austin, a not-for-profit). If you're a rider just take the bus, bike, or get any other cab service (seriously, they all have apps now and they maint…

[deleted]