Rideshare operations are being suspended in California • Hacker News Board

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#151

Post by manigandham » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:56 PM UTC

MAGZine wrote: post #123

manigandham wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're asking for better run states, it looks like Texas is doing well but I'm unfamiliar with most other states to give you a good answer. As 20 year California resident, what I do know is that nothing has gotten better here over that time frame. Everything from infrastructure to taxes to city planning is much worse now than ever. CCPA is probably the only good outcome I can think of.

The state that scared uber and lyft off with background requirements, fingerprinting, and restricting bikelanes? I think maybe the grass is just greener.

I agree with those policies so it counts as better run for me. As far as I can tell, Uber and Lyft do operate in Texas today so it looks like everything worked out?

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#152

Post by lm28469 » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:56 PM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #10

ivarv wrote: post #7

So this is basically an admission that the ridesharing business model is not viable without worker exploitation?

People freely working is not exploitation. Full time driving jobs already exist if you wanted that instead of freelance rideshare driving.

At that point it's full blown Stockholm syndrome, they somehow managed to make people believe it's in their own interest to be denied basic worker rights. Make them believe they are "their own boss" and they'll accept everything, even if they're just a tiny cog in the giant money printing machine (money they'll never see the color of)

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#153

Post by nemothekid » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:56 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #58

nemothekid wrote: post #9

When I moved to CA, I put off getting a CA license for years. I always told myself I'd go to the DMV and do the paperwork, then I waited long enough to find out I would have to retake the test, until finally I just resigned to using Uber and Lyft all the time. I never thought I would need it and so I never made it a priority. So this news really sucks, as you haven't been able to schedule DMV appointments at all and…

I totally understand that it doesn't always make economic sense to own a car. But I confess that it's really hard for me to understand the mentality of not getting a drivers license if able to do so. So many of the activities I do when in the Bay Area (and elsewhere) are pretty much impossible without either renting a car or having someone else drive me which isn't always possible. I've even had jobs that I couldn't…

1. Things just tended to "work out". I'm not someone who sweats the small stuff when planning things. At the very least if I'm going somewhere "remote" (Tahoe, Santa Cruz), I wouldn't be by myself and I could ride with someone else.

2. You'd be surprised how far you can take an Uber. I had a friend take an Uber from SF to Sacremento.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#154

Post by seanmcdirmid » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:56 PM UTC

subdane wrote: post #31

Am I nuts, or is the heart of this issue really the fact that our healthcare system is built on tying benefits to full time jobs?

A lot of these issues would go away if employers weren't responsible for providing healthcare group plans. But then again Europe also has similar drives to classify Uber/Lyft drivers as full time employees so they are entitled to other benefits and employment securities (but those don't exist in a very strong form in the USA anyways).

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#155

Post by tempsy » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:56 PM UTC

I wonder if this will mean a bunch of new car buyers in CA...which would ironically be good for the economy/recovery effort.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#156

Post by Shivetya » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:56 PM UTC

aazaa wrote: post #49

The move seems to be specifically in response to the recent court order: > Superior Court Judge Ethan Schulman ruled Monday [August 10, 2020] that Lyft and Uber's thousands of contract drivers should be given the same protections and benefits under labor law as other employees of the ride-hailing companies. > The judge said Uber and Lyft have refused to comply with a California law passed last year that was supposed…

Interesting how cities are being allowed to violate the same by not holding their own taxi services into account[0] that they regulate thereby letting them skirt the law. This is likely because these companies tend to put good money into local political campaigns.

This law is impacting people outside of Uber and Lyft but those two are highlighted because it thwarted the lock down many municipalities had over cab companies and they did not want to give up the side benefits of that cash into their political coffers.

Then throw in that Uber and Lyft were truly effective alternatives to unionized mass transit lines operated in many cities and you can see the entirety of the political graft that was being upended. If you want more you just jump into that this is part of undoing decades of jobs bounded up in occupational licensing which only serves to protect vested interest who again are quick to maintain their political donations.

If they were out to protect workers they had many more ways to do it.

[0]https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/California-s-gi...

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#157

Post by azinman2 » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:56 PM UTC

claudeganon wrote: post #113

lotsofpulp wrote: post #72

Yes, voters in the US want to give people education, healthcare, and unemployment (or basic income-ish) benefits. Voters in the US also don’t want to pay for any of this. Hence, the politicians that get elected are ones that give people education via student loans, and healthcare/unemployment benefits tied to employer/employment status. Those politicians get to claim they helped people, and they get to claim they kep…

Medicare for All is widely popular in the US. The insurance industry, hospitals, and employers who want leverage over workers buy off politicians to prevent it from happening.

Or it would be if they hadn’t successfully tied it to political identity so much.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#158

Post by Wohlf » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:56 PM UTC

gotoeleven wrote: post #8

California has proven itself again and again to be really good at centrally planning the economic activities of individuals so I think this will work out pretty well in the end.

California is so well managed the state never has issues with bare essentials like power, water, or housing.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#159

Post by apta » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:56 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #72

Yes, voters in the US want to give people education, healthcare, and unemployment (or basic income-ish) benefits. Voters in the US also don’t want to pay for any of this. Hence, the politicians that get elected are ones that give people education via student loans, and healthcare/unemployment benefits tied to employer/employment status. Those politicians get to claim they helped people, and they get to claim they kep…

> Voters in the US also don’t want to pay for any of this.

There is more than enough money to go around, it's that there is a lot of it being wasted. The government and states failed to provide a good taxation and spending model. It's not the issue of the voters not willing to pay for it.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#160

Post by Zenbit_UX » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:56 PM UTC

ivarv wrote: post #7

So this is basically an admission that the ridesharing business model is not viable without worker exploitation?

Sort of, the rub is the model can't work for both über and lyft. Their competing triggers a race to the bottom price war exacerbated by the lack of platform lock-in.

In other words, I as a rational consumer will use the service that is cheapest when all other factors are identical. Driver's as rational actors will do precisely the opposite - the one paying me the most - as neither platform found a way to differentiate themselves on driver benefits.

This system behaves according to market principles and as such, costs need to be constantly cut to fight off competing rideshare services.

Über needs lyft to die and vice versa. The real battle can be further abstracted to the investment firms supporting each company. Since the investors know that so long as their bet is funded and working towards one of the two endgames for rideshares (full self driving or death of competition) it doesn't matter how much money is lost per ride.