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Can't you just right click?

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Re: Can't you just right click?

#661

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

adriancr wrote: post #649
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you have concrete experience for that? Yes. > NVIDIA driver updates (or kernel updates while using nvidia) - caused black screen... I dumped nvidia... these are due to crappy nvidia. This is a legitimate dispute and I'm not really counting it because as much as I think Linux should have a stable driver ABI, NVidia are being needlessly obtuse. > Ubuntu deciding to remove old libraries/apps that are not maintained…

> Yes. Care to share?, I'm curious :) > Which is not a simple task. Why can't keeping old software be simple? It is in sane operating systems. Hell, even Linux can do it right, as AppImage proves, but the Linux Desktop community is so hell bent on making everything as complicated as possible that they pretty much ignore AppImage. Resources make it complicated (time/money/...). I wouldn't maintain another person's lib…

> The 'Linux Desktop' people that you say are targeting things for better or worse put in time to build free products, if you don't like some switch to others or contribute.

I did. I used to run Linux on 4/5 of my desktops and now that is down to 1/5, and only because I haven't turned that one on in 6 months. My complaints are made no less invalid by that.

Contributing to Linux Desktop is, in my considered opinion, a waste of time. The community is so dead set on doing things in the most convoluted and complicated ways possible that there is no hope for reasonable ideas.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#662

Post by ubermonkey »

hrktb wrote: post #658
ubermonkey wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still really don't understand why people get SO ANGRY about Gatekeeper. It's an excellent idea! Enforcing signed binaries by default is the correction option on a consumer OS. It's saved many, many folks many, many hours of hassle in fixing Aunt Millie's computer at Thanksgiving. And people like you and me can turn it off. It's not at all clear that Apple will remove the ability to run unsigned binaries. As of now,…

Most people (me included) are ok on the principle, and I actually don’t disable it. I want more security. Issues are on the implementation, with for instance the network calls on every command run if for any reason the CLI is not whitelisted. Also I am not against iOS either, I just need an alternative for the tools that don’t fit the model, and that role is currently filled by macos. The more macos is iOSified, the…

I guess that's the thing I find weird, because I don't see anything about MacOS becoming "iOS-ified" at all.

I mean, sure, it might happen. But hasn't happened yet.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#663

Post by se32point1 »

crek5 wrote: post #368
EForEndeavour wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have yet to encounter any non-Mac trackpad gestures that don't feel cheap, laggy, and/or too unreliable to bother committing to muscle memory. Apple's trackpad haptics and OS-level gesture support are second to none.

then use keyboard combinations. they are faster and much more reliable. I am using a wayland window manager called sway, and while im pretty sure you can do everything with a mouse, you can configure it to do a lot of things with the keyboard. for example, I found the three-finger-tap which is used for copying and pasting was too difficult and slow, so i just bound it to mod+c and mod+v

I was gonna reply with this as well, but you just about nailed it. When my hands are almost 99% on the keyboard (especially when programming, or even while browsing the internet), why should I bother moving my hands back to the mouse when I can just use my comfortable and reliable keyboard?

Re: Can't you just right click?

#664

Post by _qulr »

simonh wrote: post #659
_qulr wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Near monopoly power. We are talking about Macs still, right? The problem is that there's only one Apple Developer Program for both iOS and macOS. If you get kicked out of the developer program for reasons related to the iOS App Store, you're also kicked out of independent Mac distribution outside the App Store. You no longer have true independence on the Mac either.

Well, you're using someone else's products (dev tools, compilers, OS libraries) you buy and license from them under certain commercial terms. If you don't like the terms, don't buy them. And to be crystal clear, that's the approach I am personally going to take. I carved off a TB partition and installed Windows 10 and WSL 2 on my new iMac and it runs like a dream. I still need MacOS, and I'll be installing Virtualbox…

> Well, you're using someone else's products (dev tools, compilers, OS libraries) you buy and license from them under certain commercial terms. If you don't like the terms, don't buy them.

This doesn't tell the whole story, because terms change. Even open source licenses change. Apple added Gatekeeper to Mac OS X in 2012. Before then, it was a pretty open platform. And other companies such as Microsoft and Google have been known to follow Apple in some respects, so just because one platform has better terms than another at the moment doesn't mean the platform owners can't change their terms on a whim. Apple/Google/Microsoft have close to all of the OS market share on both mobile and desktop, so it's not like there are a lot of choices, especially in the consumer space.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#665

Post by rglullis »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #660
rglullis wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why would they ever recommend it to anyone? It is not a matter of recommending Linux or *BSD or anything else. It is just a matter of refusing to give in to closed software on the grounds of "convenience". I don't go around telling people what type of software they should use, but I do expect technical people and the common developer to understand what a terrible trade-off they are making when they choose proprieta…

Maybe you could give them the benefit of the doubt that they know exactly the trade-off they were making, and perhaps even wish they didn't have to go the route they did, but the alternative just isn't there yet?

If the alternative is not there yet and you are not helping build it, it is even worse!

I don't mind people that tell me they need, e.g, Photoshop to do their work. I do mind the fact that they don't contribute to any alternative. Just paying the subscription to Adobe and shrugging it off, instead of hedging and contributing to the alternatives? Shame on them.

Imagine 10% of every Adobe customer donating 10% annually of what they pay to Adobe to contribute to the development of an open alternative, we'd have hundreds of millions of dollars. How long would it take until Adobe would be no longer needed or at least playing against a more leveled field?

Even more in the case of the stereotypical web developer that uses a Macbook when every other tool they used is FOSS. Puts $2k on a laptop that you will only cripple you and work against you and still think this is somehow good "User Experience"? To me this is like failing an IQ test.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#666

Post by evross »

csomar wrote: post #591
cwhiz wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your opinion, what is making it less attractive?

Comparing to Linux: Tiling Window Manager, Package Manager, Much less apps/processes running on your system, Docker integration. It's also moving more toward an iOS like OS. On the downside, Linux still doesn't have an advanced GUI Git app and other cool stuff like Paw.

I use gitAhead as daily git Gui on linux. It's fast to run. Has a lot of git features, maybe not all though.

https://gitahead.github.io/gitahead.com/

Re: Can't you just right click?

#667

Post by AdmiralGinge »

fastball wrote: post #547
csomar wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody can deny that macOS has the most integrated system especially if you own an iPhone/iPad/iWatch. However, for development, it's going to depend. Excluding iOS/macOS development, the macOS is becoming less and less attractive even for web developers.

I'm a web developer, and I just bought a new MBP. There is nothing (currently) that is pushing me away from Mac as my local dev machine. I can't remember the last time I ran an unsigned GUI app as part of my development workflow.

I'm a web developer using macOS on my home machine for personal projects. I use Linux at work so I'm familiar with both, I have no intention of dropping either in the near future. Both fill a particular niche for me while not requiring much cognitive overhead to switch between them. As long as they don't do anything spectacularly moronic like insisting on the mac App Store as the only source of software or preventing non-Apple OS's being run then I'm unlikely to get pissed off enough to leave the Apple ecosystem.

"To each their own" is the key principle we're missing I think, personally my encounters with Windows have been by far the most frustrating and unproductive interactions with an OS, but some people wouldn't ever step their toes out of Microsoft land. I'm not sure how much of my dislike for Windows is because I'm simply too set in my *nix ways and how much is genuine bugginess and UI obtuseness as well.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#668

Post by read_if_gay_ »

zaarn wrote: post #622
read_if_gay_ wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never used Krita, it looks nice though and I like seeing well polished OSS, but a specific example says nothing about the general trend. > Why does it even matter if it's a usability nightmare if the user wants it they should be able to install it if it's open source Sure. And users are able to install it... it's just a little hidden. My point is if you can't even figure that out then you probably can't figure o…

There is plenty more OSS software that has polished and usable UI design. Possibly software you'd not think of as OSS to begin with. Being so dismissive of the user's wants is just Apple fanboyism.

That OSS usually has poor usability is like the most common criticism ever. And could you explain how specifically am I dismissing users' wants? I'm just saying an extra 5 clicks is not that big of a barrier, when people in this thread are throwing phrases like "incredibly painful" around.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#669

Post by adriancr »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #661
adriancr wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes. Care to share?, I'm curious :) > Which is not a simple task. Why can't keeping old software be simple? It is in sane operating systems. Hell, even Linux can do it right, as AppImage proves, but the Linux Desktop community is so hell bent on making everything as complicated as possible that they pretty much ignore AppImage. Resources make it complicated (time/money/...). I wouldn't maintain another person's lib…

> The 'Linux Desktop' people that you say are targeting things for better or worse put in time to build free products, if you don't like some switch to others or contribute. I did. I used to run Linux on 4/5 of my desktops and now that is down to 1/5, and only because I haven't turned that one on in 6 months. My complaints are made no less invalid by that. Contributing to Linux Desktop is, in my considered opinion, a…

what do you use now then and how happy are you with that?

I for one am the reverse, tried recently using windows and it just got in the way, plus felt like I was being spied on like old times under communism...

Tried last year MacOS/macbook but I can't even move the titlebar to the right... Plus Apple restricting everything I can do... Plus Macbook couldn't install Linux on it, crappy keyboard, overheating, easiest return I ever did.

Otherwise Linux since forever.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#670

Post by barrkel »

zelly wrote: post #480
barrkel wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try fusuma (gem install fusuma, may need user adding to input group to run, or run it with sudo). Gestures on trackpad for recent (libinput) Linux. It runs xdotool to stuff the keyboard buffer with keystrokes when it sees certain gestures. E.g. three finger swipe left and right do Alt-Left and Alt-Right, which have the effect of Back and Forward in the browser and some other browsing apps (e.g. IntelliJ). Four-finger…

Trackpad gestures are not the same as a keyboard shortcut. A shortcut runs one command as a discrete event, whereas a gesture is continuous e.g. what % zoom did your pinch gesture represent.

Eh. That's not what I understand by gestures. Mouse gestures - they're also a thing - generally use a sequence of orthogonal mouse movements for a single command. Most Mac gestures are discrete, not continuous. Pinch to zoom is in the minority, and is more like a multitouch input than a gesture per se. Phone gestures too are generally discrete; the exceptions are zooming and rotating, and rotating is sufficiently fiddly it isn't seen much outside map apps.
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