Notes from a Flat Earth Conference • Hacker News Board

Re: Notes from a Flat Earth Conference

#81

Post by mcculley » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:18 PM UTC

Covzire wrote: post #69

mcculley wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 3rd though 6th grade education was at a private Christian school. We were explicitly taught that the Earth is ~6,000 years old and that fossils are a test of faith in that belief. Fundamentalist creationists exist. https://enki.org/2018/07/30/things-i-learned-in-elementary-s...

I don't doubt you, but neither of those ideas are empirical in nature and not what I was referring to.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you. What good is empiricism if you will reject evidence that conflicts with your beliefs?

Re: Notes from a Flat Earth Conference

#82

Post by cupofinsane » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:22 PM UTC

erdos4d wrote: post #59

lisper wrote: post #17

I've been spending quite a bit of time interacting with the young-earth creationist community on Reddit and YouTube. It is closely related to flat-earth, though there is one significant difference: YEC is overtly religious, and specifically Christian. Other than that many of the forms of argument are the same. From that experience I have made two observations: 1. These people are not idiots (at least the YECs aren't,…

I just don't get this at all. Could you explain how they refute things like ISS camera footage showing a clearly round earth with the station going around it? Are you saying that they just refute science outright because it conflicts with their teleology beliefs? If that is the case, they actually are idiots, regardless of how erudite their arguments may be.

They say it's CGI and dismiss it

Re: Notes from a Flat Earth Conference

#83

Post by jdoliner » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:23 PM UTC

When I think back to how I was first introduced to the concept of a flat earth I can't help but feel that it's one of the bigger epistemic own-goals in history. My introduction was in school, where the concept of a flat earth was trotted out as something that everyone believed in the middle ages that we eventually learned was totally wrong. The message was simple: don't be those people, listen to the scientific evidence. At the time I thought it was a compelling story, then I found out the story is a myth. [0] Ancient Greeks knew in the 5th century BC that it was round, by the 600s it was more or less unanimously supported by scholars. I've struggled to find a time in history when there was a serious, organized group that believed the earth was flat. Except for now that is, the uncomfortable truth is that this, right now, in 2020, is the peak of flat earth belief in human history. The lesson, to me, is this: be careful what you lie about in the name of pedagogy, lies have a way of backfiring on you when people realize they're being lied to.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_flat_Earth

Re: Notes from a Flat Earth Conference

#84

Post by eurekin » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:24 PM UTC

BrianOnHN wrote: post #78

eurekin wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This actually would explain a lot from my environment as well. Different country, different parties and issues, but that triggered responses - same story

If only "Thinking fast and slow" (kahneman) was distilled into something easier to swallow. These concepts aren't new. They're also universal truths about human nature. Everyone wants to think that they're in control, at least in their head. But until they come to terms with the fact that they are not in control, they will continue to do detriment to themselves and others. See "alcoholics anonymous" (AA) for evidence…

Totally on the same page with you on that one.

I always thought it's a natural thing: once everybody matures they'll stop their knee jerk, emotional responses and only allow those well thought out, analytical ones.

It seems though, there is an opposing and totally intentional force to that.

Somehow I feel that removing the emotional reactions could lead to collapse of some bigger social structures, cause it seems that this is the main glue that holds them together

Re: Notes from a Flat Earth Conference

#85

Post by toss1 » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:24 PM UTC

esquivalience wrote: post #11

toss1 wrote: post #5

Sadly, this is another topic of questions to add to job interview filters - ask about the moon landings & vaccines. Anyone subscribing to any of this conspiracy nonsense, especially as an identity is (pardon the language) too effin stupid to work in any serious technical endeavor - if they're deeply willing to ignore those facts & reason, what will they ignore on your project? Plus, their deeply ingrained ideas that…

"I'd even filter them out for manufacturing or fast food work." What an awful approach to hiring. But, perhaps you see it as a good way to make sure that all of your colleagues are the "right" sort of people and that you never have to work with someone as lowly as a manufacturer or restaurant server.

Remember, as an employer, you'll be asking people to come to your place, and accomplish things alongside of you.

The first qualification of the "right" sort of people is integrity and an ability to trust them.

As Warren Buffet said:

"Somebody once said that in looking for people to hire, you look for three qualities: integrity, intelligence, and energy. And if you don't have the first, the other two will kill you. You think about it; it's true. If you hire somebody without [integrity], you really want them to be dumb and lazy."

Deep belief in conspiracy theories demonstrates maintained willful ignorance in the face of overwhelming facts -- i.e., a complete lack of intellectual integrity

It also shows an overwhelming distrust of anyone in authority, which would include an employer. A persons ability to trust shows their own trustworthiness - and in this case, it is for all practical purposes, zero. The second the conspiracist perceives that you are somehow slighting him, he will turn on you.

Why would anyone pay a person to work alongside them when their ability to think is self-constrained, they lack intellectual integrity to think clearly, and they are actively working to mistrust you?

Re: Notes from a Flat Earth Conference

#86

Post by Humdeee » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:24 PM UTC

Jtsummers wrote: post #49

Humdeee wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To summarize, would you say you were a great troll? I apologize if I interpreted it that way...

Why apologize? They literally said they came to it for the outrage it caused. That's pretty much the definition of a troll.

I found it confusing that he still openly identified to be part of the flat Earth group, even outside of his trolling persona. If I pretended to be religious for the purpose of trolling evolutionists, I would never say I was at any point a creationist. Surely Santa Clause at the mall doesn't believe he's Santa Clause, nor would he seriously identify as him, but he trolls kids every year to put a smile on their face. I suppose I found it a bit bizarre to still seriously identify as a flat-earther, and from that, I didn't want to offend.

Re: Notes from a Flat Earth Conference

#87

Post by erdos4d » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:24 PM UTC

lisper wrote: post #45

kmnc wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, they are idiots. If no logic can change their minds then isn’t dismissing them as idiots the best course of action?

You have completely missed the point. Their argument is logical. It just starts from a different foundational assumption.

In math we have an proof technique called reductio ad absurdum that deals with this situation. They seem to be doing it wrong though, because they don't reject the faulty hypothesis after the conclusion is logically inconsistent with reality.

Re: Notes from a Flat Earth Conference

#88

Post by toss1 » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:25 PM UTC

rustybelt wrote: post #42

toss1 wrote: post #5

Sadly, this is another topic of questions to add to job interview filters - ask about the moon landings & vaccines. Anyone subscribing to any of this conspiracy nonsense, especially as an identity is (pardon the language) too effin stupid to work in any serious technical endeavor - if they're deeply willing to ignore those facts & reason, what will they ignore on your project? Plus, their deeply ingrained ideas that…

I'm sure these types of policies would never be used against you and your beliefs.

It has zero to do with the specific beliefs

It has everything to do with the person actively maintaining willful ignorance and complete distrust

Re: Notes from a Flat Earth Conference

#89

Post by lm28469 » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:26 PM UTC

shadowgovt wrote: post #71

lm28469 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the famous "I don't like them so they shouldn't be able to live"... Since you're willing to deny people's basic rights such as "working", following your logic, someone could argue that you obviously lack empathy and shouldn't be in a managing position or anywhere above the very bottom of the hierarchy ladder No matter how smart you think you are there will always be someone who think you're as dumb as a rock,…

if you live in a place where being allowed to work by other people is a prerequisite for living, I suggest doing something about your barbaric local culture.

I'm not sure I get your point, if there is a point or if you're trying to be sarcastic, could you elaborate ?

Re: Notes from a Flat Earth Conference

#90

Post by Kednicma » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:26 PM UTC

lisper wrote: post #17

I've been spending quite a bit of time interacting with the young-earth creationist community on Reddit and YouTube. It is closely related to flat-earth, though there is one significant difference: YEC is overtly religious, and specifically Christian. Other than that many of the forms of argument are the same. From that experience I have made two observations: 1. These people are not idiots (at least the YECs aren't,…

This is part of why I go directly for discrediting the Bible as part of my refutation. There's no point in letting folks shelter themselves behind the delusion that the Bible is historically accurate enough to be useful for scientific predictions. We should be willing to crack open those religious beliefs, and not let them hide behind some sort of special motte-and-bailey construction just for the sole purpose of making bogus historical/cosmological/etc. claims.