Live data from Hacker News

Notes from a Flat Earth Conference

willpatrick.co.uk

21–30 of 169 posts

Re: Notes from a Flat Earth Conference

#21
post #13
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Stupid" is not a useful way to generally describe the people vulnerable to conspiracy theories. I have met people who are relatively intelligent who fall into these. See also: religion, politics.

With religion ymmv. A lot of people do not believe in some super-being, but do believe in belief and the benefits it brings them. A feeling of happiness, a social group to belong to, and a way of coping with the bigger philosophical questions around death and the meaning of life. Religion is too broad a term to sweep everyone under. It’s very diverse. Now creationists, who believe the world is 5.000 years old - yeah,…

To your first point, even creationists believe in empirical science and I doubt you'll find any meaningful disagreement between a die hard creationist and an evolutionary biologist on the empirical data. The line between empirical and circumstantial or interpretive evidence is often very blurry, however.

Re: Notes from a Flat Earth Conference

#22
I used to be a flat earther. No, I didn't actually believe the earth was flat, but I loved the outrage it provoked and the attention I got when I told people I was a flat earther. I also enjoyed trying to defend my position and call out (valid) logical fallacies round earthers were making. It really forces you to improve your debate skills when you have to defend an impossible position. Lastly, there was a social aspect of it, a camaraderie with other flat earthers that made me feel like I belonged to a "secret" organization that was fun and influential. I eventually outgrew that hobby.

I'm sure there are many "genuine" flat earthers, but I suspect there are a lot of flat earthers like me as well. Of course, part of the "game" is pretending you really believe it, so good luck proving it.

Re: Notes from a Flat Earth Conference

#23
Sometimes this type of long form journalism is nice because it lets you marinate in a different world. Here I can't help but feel like I just want them to get to the point because I don't really want to marinate in the Flat Earth world.

If a super intelligent AI came to me and said, "I'm going to take over the world and destroy humanity, but first I wanted to see if there was anything you needed." One of the things that I would ask it to do in order to buy time would be to annotate all the background details of every movie. For example, in Jurassic Park when Hammond is trying to get Dr. Grant to come to the park, the trailer they are in has a bunch of newspapers on the walls. What do those say? Who are all the extras that are hanging out at the dig site? Like who are the actors and can we give their characters any backstories that are consistent with the world of Jurassic Park.

I can't help but want the same thing from a story about a Flat Earth conference. How many other people went there just to see what was up. Who is there as a joke. Occasionally people send fake articles to journals to see if they can get them published. Does the same thing happen to Flat Earth conferences? People try to see how much of an outlandish presentation they can get away with? And finally, how many people go there, have a good time, pretend to buy into the whole Flat Earth business, but then when they get back and are cornered indicate that they only went because their friend went / to see what it was like / because they make fun of them later / etc.

Finally, this whole business feels very similar to me as the whole Evolution in education stuff. Sure people believe in the wrong thing, but at the end of the day very few people actually understand how the right thing works and even if they get that far they don't see what any of the implications are. Yeah, I would prefer people believe things that are true, but they don't understand it either way and they refuse to think about the implications.

I greatly appreciate the world building in things like Lord of the Rings or Avatar the last airbender. Everything works together in great detail to create a holistic world where actions have consequences that echo through the centuries. It feels like most people are just as happy to watch Michael Bay's Transformers. Maybe they like Avatar as well, but they don't understand why the shyamalan movie "adaptation" is bad. So I have a hard time caring that they agree with me that the cartoon was good as well.

Re: Notes from a Flat Earth Conference

#24
post #17

I've been spending quite a bit of time interacting with the young-earth creationist community on Reddit and YouTube. It is closely related to flat-earth, though there is one significant difference: YEC is overtly religious, and specifically Christian. Other than that many of the forms of argument are the same. From that experience I have made two observations: 1. These people are not idiots (at least the YECs aren't,…

It’s still not a good explanation to say “humans must have some purpose, therefore this one very specific made-up thing must be true.” What about all the other made-up things which also purport to explain the purpose of humans?

Explanations of this form are extremely easy to vary, which is why they are not good explanations.

Re: Notes from a Flat Earth Conference

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure this won't be a popular comment, but based on the descriptions in the article, the flat earthers seem very similar to the Trump supporters I know (family, not by choice). The clear distinction is the absolute unwillingness to listen logic without screaming what-a-about conspiracy A, or conspiracy B, or C. Or the classic "your just a socialist" inbetween talking about their social security and medicare benefi…

>Trump supporters I know (family, not by choice) What is the implication here? Is it bad to have friends who are Trump supporters? EDIT: I see my point of political bias proven, complete with intolerance, rationalization of said intolerance, gross assumptions, and overall it leaves me disappointed that the HN crowd allows this.

I judge people (not solely) based on who they choose to associate with, so for me ya it is bad. To put it more bluntly, if you surround yourself with shitty people, I'll assume you're a shitty person.

Re: Notes from a Flat Earth Conference

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure this won't be a popular comment, but based on the descriptions in the article, the flat earthers seem very similar to the Trump supporters I know (family, not by choice). The clear distinction is the absolute unwillingness to listen logic without screaming what-a-about conspiracy A, or conspiracy B, or C. Or the classic "your just a socialist" inbetween talking about their social security and medicare benefi…

>Trump supporters I know (family, not by choice) What is the implication here? Is it bad to have friends who are Trump supporters? EDIT: I see my point of political bias proven, complete with intolerance, rationalization of said intolerance, gross assumptions, and overall it leaves me disappointed that the HN crowd allows this.

What I'm saying is I appreciate intelligent discourse from the people I choose to surround myself with.

I'd love to hear from a credible left-leaning person about an example of intelligent discourse they had with a trump-supporter(not just a conservative, there's a difference).

This morning, I walked pass a Trump 2020 campaign flag with the slogan "No more bullshit." What kind of intelligence went into displaying that kind of message in public?

Re: Notes from a Flat Earth Conference

#27
post #22

I used to be a flat earther. No, I didn't actually believe the earth was flat, but I loved the outrage it provoked and the attention I got when I told people I was a flat earther. I also enjoyed trying to defend my position and call out (valid) logical fallacies round earthers were making. It really forces you to improve your debate skills when you have to defend an impossible position. Lastly, there was a social asp…

[deleted]

Re: Notes from a Flat Earth Conference

#28
post #22

I used to be a flat earther. No, I didn't actually believe the earth was flat, but I loved the outrage it provoked and the attention I got when I told people I was a flat earther. I also enjoyed trying to defend my position and call out (valid) logical fallacies round earthers were making. It really forces you to improve your debate skills when you have to defend an impossible position. Lastly, there was a social asp…

I believe polite people call us "contrarians" while everyone else calls us "assholes". But yeah I get it, I truly enjoy taking opposite sides of arguments against people that are passionately arguing their position for much the same reasons you have described above.

Re: Notes from a Flat Earth Conference

#29
post #22

I used to be a flat earther. No, I didn't actually believe the earth was flat, but I loved the outrage it provoked and the attention I got when I told people I was a flat earther. I also enjoyed trying to defend my position and call out (valid) logical fallacies round earthers were making. It really forces you to improve your debate skills when you have to defend an impossible position. Lastly, there was a social asp…

>It really forces you to improve your debate skills when you have to defend an impossible position.

I've been on the opposite of this debate. I don't know how much it compares to being on the wrong side of the debate, but I'd still say it noticeably honed my debate skills and it's humbling once you realize that you don't actually learn that much in school about how we can actually prove the earth is round and how to explain some of the discrepancies flat earthers use as arguments.

Re: Notes from a Flat Earth Conference

#30
post #17

I've been spending quite a bit of time interacting with the young-earth creationist community on Reddit and YouTube. It is closely related to flat-earth, though there is one significant difference: YEC is overtly religious, and specifically Christian. Other than that many of the forms of argument are the same. From that experience I have made two observations: 1. These people are not idiots (at least the YECs aren't,…

Why would some point of existence or meaning lead specifically to Christianity?
Post reply on HN