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Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

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Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#961

Post by gadders »

lambda-11235 wrote: post #934
ItsAlwaysMe wrote: post #804

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>nobody successfully proved to these people (me included) >sacrificing is the worst solution for everyone >this is not your fault if they [high risk people] catch it >we stop everything for the rest of our lives This is nothing more than a tantrum. Nobody can "prove" it. Humanity is still learning about COVID-19. No model is going to predict the outcome of closing the economy. It has not been done in modern times at…

It is important to differentiate terminology here. According to DDG (which closely aligns with Google's results) the case fatality rate, the ratio of deaths to confirmed case, is 3.5%. For the death rate, the ratio of deaths relative to population size, is 0.01%. Confirmed Cases: 21,991,954 Deaths: 777,018 World Pop.: ~7,800,000,000 Case Fatality Rate = Deaths/Confirmed Cases = ~3.5% Death Rate = Deaths/World Pop. =…

Case Fatality rate in the uk is ~1.5%, and still dropping: https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/the-declining-case-fatality-ra...

It is also very strongly correlated with pre-existing conditions and age.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#962

Post by hajwh »

p1necone wrote: post #754
polote wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to sacrifice a lot of my freedom to prevent unhealthy or old people to die. You could tell me that I'm wrong, but as far as I know, I'm the only one able to know how I want to live my life

Oh come on. How is just wearing a mask or working out at home during a global pandemic that's literally killing millions "sacrificing a lot of my freedom". You're selfish, and kids in history classes are going to look back on people like you forever and question why people were so selfish and stupid.

>literally killing millions

If you're going to attack others for their alleged ignorance maybe you should get basic numbers right? Covid hasn't killed 'millions', it hasn't even killed one million people. You're off by at least an order of magnitude.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#963

Post by jmartinpetersen »

donor20 wrote: post #548
ceejayoz wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe because nobody successfully proved to these people (me included) that this sacrifice is useful. > people who are at risk of dying can protect themselves even around sick people (wearing a mask, staying at home, washing hands, ...) This makes it clear "nobody successfully proved" really means "I didn't bother to listen". The messaging on masks has long been "they reduce transmission by infected people", not "t…

And you are the one not listening. In EVERY other country you can buy masks, and they were strongly encouraged, that prevented YOU from getting sick. South Koreas KF94 masks come to mind, very good coverage and fit (3 parts including one under chin). And despite the lies basically posted by you and plenty of others including health authorities (don't wear masks if you are "healthy", masks can't protect you from covid…

Denmark didn't go all out on masks initially but curbed the pandemic by socially distancing and shutting down early.

Masks are currently not required in public transport across the country, but that changes this Saturday. Up until last week I can count on one hand how many people I have seen wearing masks.

Now that people seem to have forgotten what social distancing means, masks are a useful tool. But if everyone just keeps their distance, they're not a must have.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#965

Post by skocznymroczny »

donor20 wrote: post #548
ceejayoz wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe because nobody successfully proved to these people (me included) that this sacrifice is useful. > people who are at risk of dying can protect themselves even around sick people (wearing a mask, staying at home, washing hands, ...) This makes it clear "nobody successfully proved" really means "I didn't bother to listen". The messaging on masks has long been "they reduce transmission by infected people", not "t…

And you are the one not listening. In EVERY other country you can buy masks, and they were strongly encouraged, that prevented YOU from getting sick. South Koreas KF94 masks come to mind, very good coverage and fit (3 parts including one under chin). And despite the lies basically posted by you and plenty of others including health authorities (don't wear masks if you are "healthy", masks can't protect you from covid…

> Why else do doctors in hospitals wear N95 masks? To avoid getting sick.

I always thought they are meant to protect the patient from doctor coughing directly into an open surgery wound.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#966

Post by Aeolun »

donor20 wrote: post #548
ceejayoz wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe because nobody successfully proved to these people (me included) that this sacrifice is useful. > people who are at risk of dying can protect themselves even around sick people (wearing a mask, staying at home, washing hands, ...) This makes it clear "nobody successfully proved" really means "I didn't bother to listen". The messaging on masks has long been "they reduce transmission by infected people", not "t…

And you are the one not listening. In EVERY other country you can buy masks, and they were strongly encouraged, that prevented YOU from getting sick. South Koreas KF94 masks come to mind, very good coverage and fit (3 parts including one under chin). And despite the lies basically posted by you and plenty of others including health authorities (don't wear masks if you are "healthy", masks can't protect you from covid…

Your surgical mask reduces your risk of getting covid by about 30%.

Your N95 mask reduces your risk of getting covid by about 99.9%.

Why even wear a surgical mask?

Anyway, I think the issue with going to the beach isn’t the part where you play in the open air on the beach. It’s where a bunch of people go to a beach house and drink a bunch of beer in a small room.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#967

Post by intotheabyss »

skocznymroczny wrote: post #965
donor20 wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you are the one not listening. In EVERY other country you can buy masks, and they were strongly encouraged, that prevented YOU from getting sick. South Koreas KF94 masks come to mind, very good coverage and fit (3 parts including one under chin). And despite the lies basically posted by you and plenty of others including health authorities (don't wear masks if you are "healthy", masks can't protect you from covid…

> Why else do doctors in hospitals wear N95 masks? To avoid getting sick. I always thought they are meant to protect the patient from doctor coughing directly into an open surgery wound.

That's a surgical mask. N95's protect the wearer from most particles (the 95th percentile in size).

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#968

Post by andruby »

Aeolun wrote: post #966
donor20 wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you are the one not listening. In EVERY other country you can buy masks, and they were strongly encouraged, that prevented YOU from getting sick. South Koreas KF94 masks come to mind, very good coverage and fit (3 parts including one under chin). And despite the lies basically posted by you and plenty of others including health authorities (don't wear masks if you are "healthy", masks can't protect you from covid…

Your surgical mask reduces your risk of getting covid by about 30%. Your N95 mask reduces your risk of getting covid by about 99.9%. Why even wear a surgical mask? Anyway, I think the issue with going to the beach isn’t the part where you play in the open air on the beach. It’s where a bunch of people go to a beach house and drink a bunch of beer in a small room.

> Why even wear a surgical mask?

To prevent others from getting covid from _you_ [0]

N95 masks are more expensive, take more effort (and training?) to use correctly and have limited reusability IIRC.

As a society, it's more efficient if everyone wears surgical masks, because that means every infected person is also wearing one, even those that don't know (yet) that they are covid positive. So in my opinion, it's a good thing if countries force everyone to wear them.

Good surgical masks are much nicer to breath in then fabric ones.

[0] https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/11/66/67/19361245/3/850x0.jpg

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#969

Post by Claudus »

mrexroad wrote: post #870
clay_the_ripper wrote: post #844

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument isn't about whether masks do or do not work (they do). The argument is about whether or not it makes sense to shut down the entire economy when only the very sick, very old, or very obese are really at serious risk. The obvious solution is: If you are at risk, or worried about COVID, don't leave your house. To everyone else: wear a mask, stay away from people, follow the precautions...but go do what you…

> The argument is about whether or not it makes sense to shut down the entire economy when only the very sick, very old, or very obese are really at serious risk. Tell that to my buddy who almost died. Healthy, early 40s, no pre-existing conditions. Also... there are plenty of people who do not fall in out-group rhetoric of being “Very sick, very old, or very obese” who are extremely vulnerable. Or, is that you just…

Just to be clear, he didn’t die. Correct?

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#970

Post by formercoder »

mrexroad wrote: post #870
clay_the_ripper wrote: post #844

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument isn't about whether masks do or do not work (they do). The argument is about whether or not it makes sense to shut down the entire economy when only the very sick, very old, or very obese are really at serious risk. The obvious solution is: If you are at risk, or worried about COVID, don't leave your house. To everyone else: wear a mask, stay away from people, follow the precautions...but go do what you…

> The argument is about whether or not it makes sense to shut down the entire economy when only the very sick, very old, or very obese are really at serious risk. Tell that to my buddy who almost died. Healthy, early 40s, no pre-existing conditions. Also... there are plenty of people who do not fall in out-group rhetoric of being “Very sick, very old, or very obese” who are extremely vulnerable. Or, is that you just…

Outliers exist in any distribution. Healthy people die suddenly every day. Of course it’s difficult when it’s someone close to us and I’m sorry for your friend’s struggles, but it happens.
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