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Can't you just right click?

lapcatsoftware.com

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Re: Can't you just right click?

#201
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This works for some type of software, but not all type of software. For example a file server or a file manager wont work. A VCS client wont work. A game engine that needs to keep track of imported resources (especially when you want automatic imports when the file is saved via a 3rd party tool - e.g. saving a model on Blender or a texture on Krita causes an automatic reimport/convert to the engine's format). Basical…

It is possible to still make all of these work by having frameworks that hold the permission to access the functionality, or by having entitlements to more tightly restrict which applications have access to a feature. For example, some backgrounding modes on iOS require an app to get an entitlement to act as a VOIP client, or a mapping directions app. The system access is limited to only give access to the things whi…

> It is possible to still make all of these work by having frameworks that hold the permission to access the functionality, or by having entitlements to more tightly restrict which applications have access to a feature.

I agree with this, but I can't fully get on board with it.

I've worried about the lax security model of desktop software too. Apps these days need to ask permission before accessing my documents, or my desktop, or my downloads folder, but they can still access all my company's code and SSH private keys. It feels wrong for this to be open-by-default. Same with accessing the clipboard, or drawing on the screen, or changing system settings, or injecting code into the Finder: these all seem like things I want to opt in to doing.

But my problem with this — and it's a stretch, I know — is that if the only extra entitlements a program can have are the ones that Apple explicitly allows, then no developer can have any ideas outside of what's already been thought up. As we increase security, we also dry up the innovation well.

For example, there's a Finder API that allows you to add badges to files in a directory to reflect their syncing status. This is an API that Apple allows apps to use — but it was originally implemented by Dropbox, which injected code into the Finder. They had the idea, and the idea turned into a general API.[1] (Now that I think about it, there's almost certainly prior art to this, but Dropbox was where I first saw it)

Similarly, I use a whole bunch of background utilities that currently use the "Screen Recording" or "Accessibility" Privacy permission on macOS, even if they aren't screen recorders or accessibility helpers: things like letting me move windows by holding Option, or switching apps by using the keyboard, or a Spotlight replacement, or adding a delay to ⌘Q, or the snippet manager I just used to insert the '⌘' character there. The entitlements that allow these applications to continue existing were developed after the applications themselves, and to use them, I have to opt-in to functionality that was previously allowed. If the entitlements didn't exist, we'd have to rely on Apple to think it up, and the way they're behaving, I doubt they'd be as generous as allowing one like "can read any pixel and draw anywhere on the screen".

Clipboard managers are another thing that wouldn't exist if OSes started out locked down. Not only do you need to access the keyboard, you need to do so from the background! It was the openness of desktop OSes that gave developers this idea — on iOS, nobody would have thought it up.

Way back when, in iOS 4, Apple gave apps the ability to run in the background, but only certain types of app — music playing, voice calling, and location-based apps received dedicated APIs to do that. Again, Apple waited to see which types of program were popular on other platforms, and based their APIs around allowing those specific kinds of app. If all platforms started life locked-down, maybe one or two of these categories won't be available today.

f.lux, the program that runs in the background and dims your screen red in the evening, is another example. I used to love using it on my desktop computer. But in iOS, they asked for the API, and weren't given it. And honestly, I'm kind of on Apple's side with this one: tinting the screen is the sort of system property I want only done by the OS itself, not an app, so now I use Apple's implementation of the same idea, Night Shift. But again, if the ability to tint your screen did not exist on desktop OSes, I'm willing to bet that Apple would not have come up with the idea.

And even if the idea is there for an entitlement to exist, that doesn't mean that Apple are going to allow it: adding one costs developer time, testing time, and documentation time. In a recent episode of Accidental Tech Podcast, I discovered that Switchglass (a Dock replacement I use) isn't allowed to Quit other apps, a feature I've sorely missed, because it's disallowed by the macOS sandbox. The idea for the entitlement is there, and the need is there, but Apple isn't bothered about apps opting in to such fine-grained functionality as quitting others. Ask me it through a prompt! That would be great!

I hope you see what I'm trying to say here. It used to be the case that macOS "allowed" iOS to exist, because it soaked up all the complexity — and slowly, features that proved popular on the desktop were allowed to exist, in a secure fashion, on mobile. I'm worried about how when I run random programs on my Mac, they have access to all my important files. But I'm also worried about the future. The tighter the grip OS manufacturers have on what sort of code can run on users' machines, the less innovation we'll see, and the worse computers will become.

[1]: https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Ge...

Re: Can't you just right click?

#202
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has been making things more and more restrictive over a decade now. New versions of mac os introducing new restrictions. Doesn't take a genius to see that their end goal is to make mac os as restrictive as ios. When that happens, will it still be the right spot for you?

You stop using Apple and go to a reasonable OS. You and I are not going to help Apple keep their $2T valuation, we are no longer the market not been one for 5 + years for Apple Apple moved their focus from the professional market who were willing to pay premium for productivity with better UX/Hardware/Software, to people paying just the premium . It is a lifestyle brand now, people money because it is Apple, not beca…

While I also find these changes to macOS alarming and disappointing, I still vastly prefer macOS to Windows.

My 2013 Macbook Pro is also still the best laptop I have ever used (I also have a 2017 Macbook Pro for work and I have to admit that the newer models rightfully earn their bad reputation).

If Apple continues to head in this direction, I think the right move is to migrate to Linux. Windows is a huge step back, as far as I'm concerned.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#203
post #2

This makes me wonder how open source is supposed to work on macOS. People seem to become more and more aware of it and even enterprises that insisted on support contracts can see that they can't get around open source completely anymore. Meanwhile Apple is removing the ability for me to have a pet project without paying an Apple tax. If the message were completely transparent, something like "The developer didn't pay…

> I also can't imagine $100 is easy to come up with in countries below level 4[1]. While money for a Mac is?

You can buy a Mac once. The fee is every year in addition to the cost for a Mac. You can even rent access to a Mac if money is really tight

Re: Can't you just right click?

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a feeling that this is going to change in the next year or two.

It could. But still, someone has to develop iOS itself. And someone has to write the server back-ends that all those apps depend on. And the cloud infrastructure that those back-ends run within. By definition there will always be something out there that can't be developed on a locked-down platform. So there will always be an open platform, even if Apple decided one day (again, unlikely I think) to recuse themselves…

Apple always has the option of fusing their Macs and selling blown ones externally, and then writing their OS to turn off parts of the OS that they use but think you don't need. They haven't done that, but it is always possible that they could.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at iOS, you need to pay for a developer account and the signed applications can't be distributed (otherwise they'll revoke your account) and have short-lived certs.

IIRC you don’t need to pay for an Apple dev membership to self-sign and run the app on your own device. They made this change a few years ago I believe.

This happens to depend on the code you're trying to run!

Re: Can't you just right click?

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which increases the point of being allowed to develop apps for a generic computing platform.

There was no intent at all to be disrespectful. The comment caught my eye in part because I have something of a personal interest in Iran. I used to speak regularly with an Iranian who was, among other things, a software developer. My general impression is that money was not nearly as big a problem as other things, thanks to the embargo. Your comments don't quite fit with my understanding of things, which could be ju…

I moved to the US just a few years ago.

Iran's economy has changed significantly in the past few years. University professors that used to make around ~60K USD a year just a decade ago are now making 8-12K USD a year today.

Money is definitely a problem, and even if you have the money dealing with American companies completely closing off everything is a pain.

Thankfully Android, being a little bit more open than Apple has allowed a ton of small software startups to become successful in Iran, while Apple has stifled them and has actively removed Iranian apps from the AppStore.

This brings back me to my original point that if we keep wanting Apple to keep control of what can be published and used on the iPhone then what happens when a questionable US government decides to start banning apps that help people organize? Or apps that help people combat and fight injustices?

Apple, keeping the strict control they have on the iPhone, is making the future of computing under a questionable state a dangerous thing.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn't a malware author just... do that?

I believe one of the main security benefits of these requirements are ensuring a binary hasn't been altered maliciously, or otherwise I guess. Not preventing outright malicious applications. Also so the os doesn't have to repeatedly rescan apps, etc.

That is what codesigning does.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if youre just starting out or only releasing your code for free, then you're not a "viable software business", which is what the article was complaining about.

You know who needs to get new customers (the next sentence in the paragraph you took the quote from)? People bootstrapping a software business.

Or people who want to publish a software for free.

It's surprising how many people have forgotten that software development and starting out new projects wasn't always for an endgoal of monetizing it.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#210
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn't a malware author just... do that?

If you have a vulnerable app, it might modify another already approved app that is already installed, thus omitting the scary message about untrusted code before being run.

Checks are significantly relaxed after installation, so I don't think this would actually help here anyways.
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